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Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

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Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#91

Post by worldsayshi »

samename wrote: post #77
worldsayshi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Zero-Knowledge Identity? Use zero knowledge proofs to prove that I have an eID without actually providing my identity.

EFF has a good write-up about zero-knowledge: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/07/zero-knowledge-proofs-... > What ZKPs don’t do is mitigate verifier abuse or limit their requests, such as over-asking for information they don’t need or limiting the number of times they request your age over time. They don’t prevent websites or applications from collecting other kinds of observable personally identifiable informatio…

Interesting. While that is true I don't see how it's an argument against. Over-asking + ZKP certainly seems superior to over-asking + without ZKP. Without ZKP in a world where you constantly need to identify yourself you have absolutely no privacy.

And going forward I think that any communication without establishing some kind of trust boundary will just be noise.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#92

Post by WCSTombs »

amarant wrote: post #4

Man the name really threw me for a minute. Polis is the correct spelling for police in my native Swedish and I got through the first 2 paragraphs wondering what any of this has to do with law enforcement. Then it dawned on me. Edit to add: I think the white and blue theme helps. Those are police colours in Sweden...

The name must be taken from Greek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polis

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#93

Post by croisillon »

WCSTombs wrote: post #92
amarant wrote: post #4

Man the name really threw me for a minute. Polis is the correct spelling for police in my native Swedish and I got through the first 2 paragraphs wondering what any of this has to do with law enforcement. Then it dawned on me. Edit to add: I think the white and blue theme helps. Those are police colours in Sweden...

The name must be taken from Greek. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polis

unsurprisingly, the word police comes from polis

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#95

Post by tummler »

Love the idea, discussed doing something similar with a friend around the late 2000s but never did.

Hate to say it, but the concept needs to be gamified and turned into an app. This is the only way you’re gonna get the average citizen today to engage. Need to implement viral loops and gamification to even get peoples’ attention on something like this, much less hold it.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#96

Post by embedding-shape »

tummler wrote: post #95

Love the idea, discussed doing something similar with a friend around the late 2000s but never did. Hate to say it, but the concept needs to be gamified and turned into an app. This is the only way you’re gonna get the average citizen today to engage. Need to implement viral loops and gamification to even get peoples’ attention on something like this, much less hold it.

> Hate to say it, but the concept needs to be gamified and turned into an app. This is the only way you’re gonna get the average citizen today to engage. Need to implement viral loops and gamification to even get peoples’ attention on something like this, much less hold it.

No, I don't think that's true. First I'm not sure I even agree that all "average citizens" should need to engage, it has to engage the ones that cares, not absolutely everyone. And I don't think success should be measured in "engagement" here, but I'm also not a laissez-faire capitalist, so maybe that's where the difference comes in.

There are similar platforms in relatively wide usage already, https://decidim.org/ being one of them, and as far as I know has zero gamification, because again, "engagement" as in "users spend time on the website" isn't and shouldn't be the goal here.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#97

Post by notahacker »

Taikonerd wrote: post #13
davidw wrote: post #3

Interesting, but how's it work out when people believe in "alternative facts"? That seems to be a pretty big problem in many places. I think I can find some common ground with people who have different views on corporate taxation if we both go over some data and economics and think about it and consider various tradeoffs. Especially if we chat face to face to avoid any 'keyboard warrior' effects. I probably can't fin…

IIUC, this was a finding when they ran the Polis experiments in Taiwan: when you map the arguments of the different sides, there are actually large areas of agreement. In other words, the median person who disagrees with you is a "potential common ground" guy, not a "planet Zargon" guy.

Trouble is, the "large areas of agreement" can be pretty superficial. You can probably find broad agreement across the entire political spectrum about "cutting government waste", but it turns out that who is tasked with doing this and the low level details of what gets cut matter a lot more than the basic principle.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#98

Post by notTooFarGone »

samename wrote: post #77
worldsayshi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Zero-Knowledge Identity? Use zero knowledge proofs to prove that I have an eID without actually providing my identity.

EFF has a good write-up about zero-knowledge: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/07/zero-knowledge-proofs-... > What ZKPs don’t do is mitigate verifier abuse or limit their requests, such as over-asking for information they don’t need or limiting the number of times they request your age over time. They don’t prevent websites or applications from collecting other kinds of observable personally identifiable informatio…

The arguments they make is a good example of "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good".

If we allow incumbents to make photo age verification and upload of ID to third-parties to be the solution, we will have a much worse solution.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#99

Post by mejutoco »

goda90 wrote: post #12

What are some strategies a platform like this can take against spam or influence bots? Tying real life identities to users would certainly limit that(though identity theft and account selling could still happen), but that adds friction to joining, poses security risks, and many people might feel less comfortable putting their opinions openly online where backlash could impact real life.

There are so many things here that can work:

- Not having just upvote or downvote, but upvote as funny or insightful (slashdot)

- Not allowing to vote or comment until some karma has been reached (new accounts inflame topics and disappear later, having influenced).

- Invite only so one can block while chain of accounts.

- Not allowing to vote or comment every day or every hour, but randomly (more difficult for bots)

- Automatically downvoting posts with grammatical or low-effort errors.

- Having a way to allow replies only from the account you are answering to (so that bots do not switch places while moving the topic).

- Post history public (on reddit it can be made private, so a bot is posting hate in many communities and one cannot cross-check)

- Some sort of graph of statistics of accounts that comment together.

- Paying a small amount as friction for bots (linked to card, etc.)

I guess with AI there would be even more. These are some from the top of my head.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#100

Post by worldsayshi »

notTooFarGone wrote: post #98
samename wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EFF has a good write-up about zero-knowledge: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/07/zero-knowledge-proofs-... > What ZKPs don’t do is mitigate verifier abuse or limit their requests, such as over-asking for information they don’t need or limiting the number of times they request your age over time. They don’t prevent websites or applications from collecting other kinds of observable personally identifiable informatio…

The arguments they make is a good example of "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good". If we allow incumbents to make photo age verification and upload of ID to third-parties to be the solution, we will have a much worse solution.

Exactly. And I do think that a world where zkp ids are taken for granted is one where the issues they point to will be more surmountable than today.
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