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Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#91

Post by worik »

mindslight wrote: post #82
LtWorf wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly. These times never existed.

I'm getting tired of these comments that normalize being in the middle of the slippery slope as if it is merely the same as being at the top of the slippery slope was. They may not have been "good" times, but they were certainly better times when government agencies at least aimed to carry out their roles in good faith rather than minmaxing the rules to cause the most damage to enemies of the Party. Applying judgemen…

No.

The difference now is the number of people feeling effected

It always been thus for people at the margins

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#92

Post by throwway120385 »

JohnMakin wrote: post #29
rvz wrote: post #14

[flagged]

These kind of condescending comments are a bit much, especially when not everyone has the luxury or know-how to deFAANG their lives. For instance, whether or not (I) personally want to avoid it, I use some of this for actual work, and there is no alternative. Comments like this seem to imply then I have no right to complain about it, which is frankly ridiculous - there is a world where FAANGs can exist without being…

It's almost like there should be some third party that represents people who could regulate companies like Google and prevent them from becoming too big. Maybe there are some examples from US history where some such third party existed.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#93

Post by amanaplanacanal »

legitster wrote: post #86
crooked-v wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Administrative subpoenas" have always been bullshit that mostly rely on there being no penalty for companies that hand over user information to anyone with a badge and then justify it with a five-hundred-page TOS document.

There is a case to be made that administrative subpoenas can be good. They save taxpayers money, they speed up investigations, and they free up the court for more important matters. As with all things though, these agencies should not be self-regulated without civilian and judicial oversight.

They seem unconstitutional on their face, to me. Speeding things up because the Constitution makes it too hard is a bad idea.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#94

Post by mindslight »

worik wrote: post #91
mindslight wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting tired of these comments that normalize being in the middle of the slippery slope as if it is merely the same as being at the top of the slippery slope was. They may not have been "good" times, but they were certainly better times when government agencies at least aimed to carry out their roles in good faith rather than minmaxing the rules to cause the most damage to enemies of the Party. Applying judgemen…

No. The difference now is the number of people feeling effected It always been thus for people at the margins

So we agree, including that there is a difference.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#97

Post by sam345 »

legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

I'm not an expert in fourth amendment but I do know that assuming a subpoena without judicial oversight violates the fourth amendment is not correct. All the fourth amendment guarantees is unreasonable search and seizure. In some circumstances a judicial subpoena may be necessary and others not. An administrative subpoena implies that there has been a legal procedure and the administrative agencies are not exactly run like the wild west.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#100

Post by legitster »

tadfisher wrote: post #88
legitster wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence, why I wonder if this is specific their credit/banking products as part of Know Your Customer rules.

Google does not provide those products (not in the US, as far as I am aware), but they are a money transmitter in the same vein as Square/Block, Stripe, and Venmo [0]. They won't be directly subject to the Bank Secrecy Act, but they partner with the major payment networks (who have their own rules and their own partner programs with banks) as part of Google Pay and customer payment profiles. But I don't think this ma…

I just looked it up, and money transmitters are included in the Banking Secrecy Act as "Money Services Businesses". So yes, they have KYC obligations in the sense that they know where you are moving your money and are obligated to tell investigators.

Unfortunately, KYC is used for much more than just financial crimes, and the precedent to comply is much more firmly established.

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