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Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

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Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't care, they would rather let you use pirated MS software than move to Linux. Not even sure that's true anymore. How else to explain WSL/WSL2? They practically lead you to Linux by the hand these days.

Even with that, your hardware is still running Windows.

But it's an easy jump to the real thing from there.

Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#92
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 100 Opus requests a month? That's not a lot.

Cat's out of the bag now, and it seems they'll probably patch it, but: Use other flows under standard billing to do iterative planning, spec building, and resource loading for a substantive change set. EG, something 5k+ loc, 10+ file. Then throw that spec document as your single prompt to the copilot per-request-billed agent. Include in the prompt a caveat that We are being billed per user request. Try to go as far a…

This is basically my workflow. Claude Code for short edits/repairs, VSCode for long generations from spec. Subagents can work for literally days, generation tens of thousands of lines of code with one prompt that costs 12 cents. There's even a summary of tokens used per session in Copilot CLI, telling me I've used hundreds of millions of tokens. You can calculate the eventual API value of that.

Just at the absolute best deal in the AI market.

Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than actual human customer agents who give an obviously scripted “I’m sorry about that” when you explain a problem. At least the computer isn’t being forced to lie to me. We need a law that forces management to be regularly exposed to their own customer service.

I knew someone would respond with this. HN is rampant with this sort of contrarian defeatism, and I just responded the other day to a nearly identical comment on a different topic, so: No, it is not better. I have spent $AGE years of my life developing the ability to determine whether someone is authentically providing me sympathy, and when they are, I actually appreciate it. When they aren’t, I realize that that per…

It's an Americanism. You might enjoy e.g. a Northern European culture more?

Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#95

The "premium request" billing model where you pay per invocation and not for usage is very obviously not a sustainable approach and creates skewed incentives (e.g. for microsoft to degrade response quality), especially with the shift towards longer running agentic sessions as opposed to simple oneshot chat questions, which the system was presumably designed for. Its just a very obvious fundamental incompatibility and…

Paying per token also encouragages reduced quality only now you pay. If they can subtbtly degrade quality or even probability of 1shot solutions, they get you paying for more tokens. Under current economic models and incentive structures, enshitification is inevitable, since we're optimizing for it long term.

Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with that, your hardware is still running Windows.

But it's an easy jump to the real thing from there.

The driver issues that are commonly complained about will make that difficulty depend on what hardware you have.

Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand ... I recently had to deal with official Microsoft Support for an Azure service degradation / silent failure. Their email responses were broadly all like this -- fully drafted by GPT. The only thing i liked about that whole exchange was that GPT was readily willing to concede that all the details and observations I included point to a service degradation and failure on Microsoft side. A purely human…

> The only thing i liked about that whole exchange was that GPT was readily willing to concede that all the details and observations I included point to a service degradation and failure on Microsoft side. Reminds me of an interaction I was forced to have with a chatbot over the phone for “customer service”. It kept apologizing, saying “I’m sorry to hear that.” in response to my issues. The thing is, it wasn’t sorry…

> Are you sure “readily willing to concede” is worth absolutely anything as a user or consumer?

The company can't have it both ways. Either they have to admit the ai "support" is bollocks, or they are culpable. Either way they are in the wrong.

Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#98
post #6

The laat comment is a person pretending to be a maintainer of Microsoft. I have a gut feeling that these kind of people will only increase, and we'll have vibe engineers scouring popular repositories to ""contribute"" (note that the suggested fix is vague). I completely understand why some projects are in whitelist-contributors-only mode. It's becoming a mess.

Etiquette on GitHub has completely gone out the window, many issues I look at these days resemble reddit threads more than any serious technical discussion. My inbox is frequently polluted by "bump" comments. This is going to get worse as LLMs lower the bar.

Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had single prompt to Opus consume as many as 13 premium messages. The Copilot harness is so gimped so they can abstract tokens from messages. Every person that started with Copilot that I know that tried CC were amazed at the power difference. Stepping out of a golf cart and into .

It hasn't done that to me. It's worked according to their docs: > Copilot Chat uses one premium request per user prompt, multiplied by the model's rate. > Each prompt to Copilot CLI uses one premium request with the default model. For other models, this is multiplied by the model's rate. > Copilot coding agent uses one premium request per session, multiplied by the model's rate. A session begins when you ask Copilot…

Sorry, I should have specified this was with GHC CLI. I suppose that might not behave similarly to the GUI extension. But it definitely happened on Thursday. One prompt, ctrl-c out and it said 13 premium messages used. It was reading a couple of large files and Opus doesn't seem to let the harness restrict it from reading entire files... just a couple hundred lines at a time.

and now I see your comment mentions that explicitly. The output was quite unambiguous. :shrug:

Re: Billing can be bypassed using a combo of subagents with an agent definition

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew someone would respond with this. HN is rampant with this sort of contrarian defeatism, and I just responded the other day to a nearly identical comment on a different topic, so: No, it is not better. I have spent $AGE years of my life developing the ability to determine whether someone is authentically providing me sympathy, and when they are, I actually appreciate it. When they aren’t, I realize that that per…

The world would not actually be improved by having 1000s of customer service reps genuinely authentically feel sorry. You're literally demanding real people to experience real negative emotions over some IT problem you have.

People authentically, genuinely, naturally care about other people; empathy - founded at least partly in mirror neurons - is the most fundamental human nature. It's part of being social animals that live, survive, and thrive only in groups. It's even important for conflict - you need to anticipate the other person's moves, which requires instintively understanding their emotions.

The exceptions are generally when people are scared, and sadly some people are scared all the time.

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