I don’t think that is a good term. We generally designate processes as “automatic” or “automation” that work without any human guidance or involvement at all. If you have to control and steer something, it’s not automatic.
Automatic Programming
91–100 of 257 posts
Re: Automatic Programming
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is knowledge, it can't be stolen. It is stolen only in the sense of someone gatekeeping knowledge. Which is as a practice, the least we can say, dubious. because is math stolen ? if you stole math to build your knowledge on top of it, you own nothing and can claim to have been stolen yourself
Are you against copyright, patents, and IP in all forms then?
Independent of ones philosophical stance on the broader topic: I find it highly concerning that AI companies, at least right now, seem to be largely exempt from all those rules which apply to everyone else, often enforced rigorously.
Re: Automatic Programming
#93We maybe witnessing the last generation of master software artisans like antirez.
This is beautiful to see, their mastery harnessing the power of the intelligent machine tools to design, understand and build.
This is like seeing a master of image & light like michelangelo receiving a camera, photoshop and a printer. It's an exponential elevation of the art.
But to become a master like michelangelo one had to dedicate herself to the craft of manually mixing and applying materials to bend and modulate light, slowly building and consolidating those neural pathways by reflection and, most of all, practice, until those skills became as natural as getting up or bringing a hand to the mouth. When that happened, art flowed from her mind to the physical world and the body became the vessel of intuition.
A master like antirez had to wrap his head around concepts alien to the human mind. Bits, bytes, arrays, memory layout, processors, compilers, interfaces, abstractions, constraints, types, concurrency do not exist in the savannas that forged brains. Had to comprehend and learn to use his own cognitive capabilities and restrictions to know at what level to break the code units and the abstraction boundaries. At the very top, master this in a level so high that software became like Redis: beautiful, powerful and so elevated in the art that it became simpler, not more complex. It's Picasso drawing a dog.
The intelligent software building machines can do things no human manually can (given the same time, humans die, get old or get bored), but they are not brush and canvas. They function in another way, the mind needs other paths to master them. The path to master them is not the same path to master artisanal software building.
So, this new generation, wanting to build things not possible to the artisan, will become masters of another craft, one we right now cannot even comprehend or imagine, in the same way michelangelo could never imagine the level of control over light the modern photography masters have.
Me, not a master, but having dedicated my whole life to artisanal software building, am excited to receive and use the new tools, to experiment the new craft. Also frightened by the uncertainty of this new world.
What a time to be alive.
Re: Automatic Programming
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Waterfall can work great when: 1/ the focus is long-term both in terms of knowing that she company can take a few years to get the thing live but also that it will be around for many more years, 2/ the people writing the spec and the code are largely the same people. Agile was really pushing to make sure companies could get software live before they died (number 1) and to remedy the anti-pattern that appeared with nu…
No. Agile core is the feedback loop. I can't believe people still don't get it. Feedback from reality is always faster than guessing on the air. Waterfall is never great. The only time when you need something else than Agile is when lives are at stake, you need there formal specifications and rigorous testing. SDD allows better output than traditional programming. It is similar to waterfall in the sense that the mode…
> The only time when you need something else than Agile is when lives are at stake, you need there formal specifications and rigorous testing.
Lives are always at stake, given that we use software everywhere, and often in unintended ways, even outside its spec (isn't that a definition of a "hack"?).
People think of medical appliance software, space/air traffic software, defense systems or real-time embedded systems as the only environments where "lives are stake", but actually, in subtle ways, a violation of user expectancy (in some software companies, UX issues count as serious bugs) in a Word processor, Web browser or the sort command can kill a human.
Two real-life examples:
(1) a few years ago, a Chinese factory worker was killed by a robot. It was not in the spec that a human could ever walk in the robot's path (the first attested example of "AI" killing a human that I found at the time). This was way before deep larning entered the stage, and the factory was a closed and fully automated environment.
(2) Also a few years back, the Dutch software for social benefits management screwed up, and thousands of families just did not get pay out any money at all for an extended period. Allegedly, this led to starvations (I don't have details - but if any Dutch read this, please share), and eventually a whole Dutch government was forced to resign over the scandal.
Re: Automatic Programming
#95We maybe witnessing the last generation of master software artisans like antirez. This is beautiful to see, their mastery harnessing the power of the intelligent machine tools to design, understand and build. This is like seeing a master of image & light like michelangelo receiving a camera, photoshop and a printer. It's an exponential elevation of the art. But to become a master like michelangelo one had to dedicate…
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Re: Automatic Programming
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Waterfall can work great when: 1/ the focus is long-term both in terms of knowing that she company can take a few years to get the thing live but also that it will be around for many more years, 2/ the people writing the spec and the code are largely the same people. Agile was really pushing to make sure companies could get software live before they died (number 1) and to remedy the anti-pattern that appeared with nu…
I spent my career building software for executives that wanted to know exactly what they were going to get and when because they have budgets and deadlines i.e. the real world. Mostly I’ve seen agile as, let’s do the same thing 3x we could have done once if we spent time on specs. The key phrase here is “requirements analysis” and if you’re not good at it either your software sucks or you’re going to iterate needless…
> making it default is often a huge waste of $ for problems you/most don’t have.
It's the opposite — knowing the exact spec of your program up front is vanishingly rare, probably something, toss it over to the users and see what happens.
No developer or, dear god, "stakeholder" can possibly know what the users need. Asking the users up front is better, but still doesn't help much — they don't know what they want either.
No plan survives first contact with the enemy and there's no substitute for testing — reality is far too complex for you to be able to model it up front.
> You don’t iterate the foundation of a house.
You do, actually. Or rather, we have — over thousands of years we've iterated and written up what we've learned so that nobody has to iterate from scratch for every new house anymore. It's just that our physics, environment, and requirements for "a house" doesn't change constantly, like it does for software and we've had thousands of years to perfect the craft, not some 50 years.
Also, civil engineers mess up in exactly the same ways. Who needs testing? [1]. Who needs to iterate as they're building? [2].
Re: Automatic Programming
#97Re: Automatic Programming
#98> Pre-training is, actually, our collective gift I feel like this wording isn't great when there are many impactful open source programmers who have explicitly stated that they don't want their code used to train these models and licensed their work in a world where LLMs didn't exist. It wasn't their "gift", it was unwillingly taken from them. > I'm a programmer, and I use automatic programming. The code I generate i…
> there are many impactful open source programmers who have explicitly stated that they don't want their code used to train these models and licensed their work in a world where LLMs didn't exist. It wasn't their "gift", it was unwillingly taken from them.
There are subtle legal differences between "free open source" licensing and putting things in the public domain. If you use an open source license, you could forbid LLM training (in licensing law, contrary to all other areas of law, anything that is not granted to licensees is forbidden). Then you can take the big guys (MSFT, Meta, OpenAI, Google) to court if you can demonstrate they violated your terms.
If you place your software into the public domain, any use is fair, including ways to exploit the code or its derivatives not invented at the time of release.
Curiosly, doesn't the GPL even imply that if you pre-tain an LLM with GPLed code and use it to generate code (Claude Code etc.) that all generated code -- as derived intellectual property that it clearly is -- must also be open sourced as per GPL terms? (It would seem in the spirit of the licensors.) Haven't seen this raised or discussed anywhere yet.
Re: Automatic Programming
#99[stub for offtopicness]
It’s not automatic programming, any more than compiling is. It’s a form of high level programming.
It’s also sloppy and irresponsible. But hey, you can fake your work faster and more convincingly than ever before.
Call it slop coding.
Re: Automatic Programming
#100Friendly reminder that almost nobody is working this way now. You (reader) don't have to spend 346742356 tokens on that refactor. antirez won't magically swoop in and put your employer out of business with the Perfect Prompt (and accompanying AI blog post). There's a lot of software out there and MoltBook isn't going to spontaneously put your employer out of business either. Don't fall into the trap of thinking "if I…
Putting your head in the sand and ignoring it all isn't a good strategy either. Like it or not, AI will be a part of the rest of your career in some quantity. Not just because we collectively decide that we want to use these tools, but because tools that undeniably provide a huge productivity boost when used correctly are something the economy cannot ignore. My advice would be to avoid feeling compelled to try every…
Like with most technological change I think there is no need for FOMO. You run into problems if you completely ignore already established and proven tools and practices for years to come but you don't have to jump onto every "this changes everything, trust me bro" hype.