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Code is cheap. Show me the talk

nadh.in

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Re: Code is cheap. Show me the talk

#91

Post by atomicnature »

instig007 wrote: post #40
atomicnature wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the "artisanal clothing argument". I'd think there'll be a dip in code quality (compared to human) initially due to "AI machinery" due to its immaturity. But over-time on a mass-scale - we are going to see an improvement in the quality of software artifacts. It is easier to 'discipline' the top 5 AI agents in the planet - rather than try to get a million distributed devs ("artisans") to produce high quality r…

> This is the "artisanal clothing argument". > it is easier to 'discipline' the top 5 AI agents in the planet - rather than try to get a million distributed devs ("artisans") to produce high quality results. Your take essentially is "let's live in a shoe box, packaging pipelines produce them cheaply en masse, who needs slow poke construction engineers and architects anymore"

Where have I said engineers/architects aren't necessary? My point is that it is easier to get AI to get better than try to improve a million developers. Isn't that a straightforward point?

What the role of an engineer in the new context - I am not speculating on.

Re: Code is cheap. Show me the talk

#92

Post by figassis »

Waterluvian wrote: post #34

I think if your job is to assemble a segment of a car based on a spec using provided tools and pre-trained processes, it makes sense if you worry that giant robot arms might be installed to replace you. But if your job is to assemble a car in order to explore what modifications to make to the design, experiment with a single prototype, and determine how to program those robot arms, you’re probably not thinking about…

I don’t think this is the issue “yet”. It’s that no matter what class you are, your CEO does not care. Mediocre AI work is enough to give them immense returns and an exit. He’s not looking out for the unfortunate bag holders. The world has always had tolerance for highly distributed crap. See Windows.

Re: Code is cheap. Show me the talk

#93

Post by atomicnature »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #75
atomicnature wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the "artisanal clothing argument". I'd think there'll be a dip in code quality (compared to human) initially due to "AI machinery" due to its immaturity. But over-time on a mass-scale - we are going to see an improvement in the quality of software artifacts. It is easier to 'discipline' the top 5 AI agents in the planet - rather than try to get a million distributed devs ("artisans") to produce high quality r…

> industry machinery could match the average artisan or even beat the average Whether it could is distinct from whether it will. I'm sure you've noticed the decline in the quality of clothing. Markets a mercurial and subject to manipulation through hype (fast fashion is just a marketing scheme to generate revenue, but people bought into the lie). With code, you have a complicating factor, namely, that LLMs are now co…

I don't agree with the limited point about fast fashion/enthittification, etc.

Quick check: Do you want to go back to pre-industrial era then - when according to you, you had better options for clothing?

Personally, I wouldn't want that - because I believe as a customer, I am better served now (cost/benefit wise) than then.

As to the point about recursive quality decline - I don't take it seriously, I believe in human ingenuity, and believe humans will overcome these obstacles and over time deliver higher quality results at bigger scale/lower costs/faster time cycles.

Re: Code is cheap. Show me the talk

#94

Post by stevofolife »

jdjeeee wrote: post #84
bheadmaster wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a great way to foster the learning spirit in the age of AI. Even if the student uses AI to arrive at an answer, they will still need to, at the very least, ask the AI to give it an explanation that will teach them how it arrived to the solution.

No this is not the way we want learning to be - just like how students are banned from using calculators until they have mastered the foundational thinking.

Calculator don't tell you step by step. AI can.

Re: Code is cheap. Show me the talk

#95

Post by instig007 »

atomicnature wrote: post #91
instig007 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the "artisanal clothing argument". > it is easier to 'discipline' the top 5 AI agents in the planet - rather than try to get a million distributed devs ("artisans") to produce high quality results. Your take essentially is "let's live in a shoe box, packaging pipelines produce them cheaply en masse, who needs slow poke construction engineers and architects anymore"

Where have I said engineers/architects aren't necessary? My point is that it is easier to get AI to get better than try to improve a million developers. Isn't that a straightforward point? What the role of an engineer in the new context - I am not speculating on.

> My point is that it is easier to get AI to get better than try to improve a million developers.

No it's not, your whole premise is invalid both in terms of financing the effort and in the AI's ability to improve beyond RNG+parroting. The AI code agents produce shoe boxes, your claim is that they can be improved to produce buildings instead. It won't happen, not until you get rid of the "temperature" (newspeak for RNG) and replace it with conceptual cognition.

Re: Code is cheap. Show me the talk

#96

Post by mips_avatar »

Waterluvian wrote: post #34

I think if your job is to assemble a segment of a car based on a spec using provided tools and pre-trained processes, it makes sense if you worry that giant robot arms might be installed to replace you. But if your job is to assemble a car in order to explore what modifications to make to the design, experiment with a single prototype, and determine how to program those robot arms, you’re probably not thinking about…

Well a lot of managers view their employees as doing the former, but they’re really doing the latter

Re: Code is cheap. Show me the talk

#97

Post by simianparrot »

stevofolife wrote: post #94
jdjeeee wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No this is not the way we want learning to be - just like how students are banned from using calculators until they have mastered the foundational thinking.

Calculator don't tell you step by step. AI can.

And it’s making that up as well.

Re: Code is cheap. Show me the talk

#98

Post by jatins »

gipp wrote: post #5

I see a lot of the same (well thought out) pushback on here whenever these kinds of blind hype articles pop up. But my biggest objection to this "engineering is over" take is one that I don't see much. Maybe this is just my Big Tech glasses, but I feel like for a large, mature product, if you break down the time and effort required to bring a change to production, the actual writing of code is like... ten, maybe twen…

Did you read the article? Author is one of the more thoughtful and least hype guys you'll find when it comes to these things
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