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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#91
post #4

Please do not take 5000mg/day of Vitamin D. The author confuses IU and mg which is very dangerous.

Only recently again I read in the newspaper, that most products are overdosed. There is a typical number that the vitamin D products usually show, and in the article it said, that only up to 800 IU is safe, and everything above is an overdose. There are many products out there with 2000 UI or maybe even more. Beware. EDIT: Wow, the HN-local doctors at it again. Imagine getting downvoted for sharing information from n…

Before I take medical advice from a newspaper, I might as well ask my local esoteric nut.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#92
post #16

Chia seed and flaxseed high in omega3

+ great for fiber. I load up chia as much as I can throughout the day.

Chia is awesome for making pudding out of random liquids. I have to restrain myself from eating a batch of coconut milk cinnamon chia pudding in a single sitting.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#93
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easily possible to overdose on oral Vitamin D tablets and damage your body.

Source? There have been many articles on HN showing the RDA to be ~10x too low (something like 5,000 IU) and that the daily safety limit to be significantly higher than that (something like 30,000 IU). Edit: for clarity I am not saying it is impossible to overdose on oral tablets, but rather that with most tablets 400 IU to 1000 IU and the safe limit so much higher than these, it seems like it would be extremely unli…

That's a bit of a non-sequitur, isn't it? The debated point is how oral intake as a delivery method can pan out specifically (and its limits), not the dosage limits of Vitamin D in general. Think consuming a drug vs injecting it.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#94
post #38
post #4

Please do not take 5000mg/day of Vitamin D. The author confuses IU and mg which is very dangerous.

It's unbelievable crazy what the author suggests, even say "10,000 IU if you're feeling daring / have darker skin / live in less sunny climates.". Just a simple look at the side effects of high dosages: Safety and side effects Taken in typical doses, vitamin D is thought to be mainly safe. But taking too much vitamin D in the form of supplements can be harmful and even deadly. Taking more than 4,000 IU a day of vitam…

FWIW just anecdotally I took 160,000 IU per day for a few months along with 800mcg to 2mg of K2 MK-7 and about double the suggested amount of magnesium citrate. I slowly titrated up to that amount over a few months. I am not suggesting anyone else do that as I had a specific purpose slow action TPA when combined with many protease so to speak but just my own experience I did not have any of those issues. I don't know how they came up with them so I figure they are just guessing like they did with the toxic level of selenium which has a funny back story. I am back down to 5000 IU a day. Years later still none of those issues. But that is just me.

I did have one issue related to magnesium however. If I did a very high dose of magnesium taurate and a couple of other chelated forms I would have trouble catching my breath after physical exertion similar to chronic high doses of iodine. Not the end of the world but it was unnerving.

Don't anyone else do what I do. I experiment on myself more than scientists experiment on mice minus the whole dissection bit. I am just continuing some experiments from the 1900's but as I understand it AI will be learning all of those soon. Fascinating stuff really.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#95
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While (I think) I agree with you on the facts here, I don't think this type of dismissive comments are that useful either. Can you give the replyee some pointers, for example? Link to articles or studies that show a different view?

Just Google it. There's tons of research on this so I don't know why I need to provide a specific link when this is common knowledge. But also here is something to think about: your body will produce more D3 than that by being in the sun for just several minutes. So if you consider such a low dose of D3 an overdose then you better steer clear of the sun!

The problem with "Just Google it" that you can find a lot of bullshit on this.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert, but I've done a bunch of reading on this previously, and also skimmed the article which also mentions some parts of this. First, when taking omega 3 supplements, you generally care about increasing the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. Hemp hearts have much more omega 6 than omega 3, so they're not very effective for improving the ratio. Second, hemp hearts contain ALA, while what you generally want to…

The ratio of Omega 6 to 3 needs to be below 4:1 to be a good source of Omega 3, and hemp hearts are at 3:1, so they're listed as a good source of Omega 3. Flax seeds are even better just for Omega 3 at 1:3, but hemp hearts have other benefits, like more protein, which is why I called them out. That said, I eat a fair amount of flax seeds as well.

Just to reiterate, both of those (hemp hearts and flaxseed) only contain ALA, while what you're generally looking for is EPA and DHA. TFA also explicitly mentions it's only talking about EPA.

This is not to say that they're unhealthy of course.

EDIT: see the sibling comment by code_biologist, it's much more comprehensive than what I've written.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#97
post #2

I found this to be the case. Tried Sertraline for a while, gave me headaches and made me feel sick. Then as part of a new gym plan, started taking Omega 3+VitD daily, and I just felt a sense of calm and peace after a few weeks. The massive uptick in exercise probably also helped. I also felt quite an extreme uptick because I was a vegan for 10 years, and found out I had basically zero Omega 3 in my blood. I suspect o…

All my nutrient numbers improved when I became vegan because nearly every one in the US/UK is deficient in VitD, Omegas and B12. Fortunately today’s vegan communities are much more aware of this so I started taking these supplements right up front and all my blood markers improved dramatically since when I consumed meat/dairy. It’s annoying to hear some push back against this when it’s as simple as taking relatively…

Why did you become a vegan if apparently even non-vegans are deficient in B12? Do you supplement B12? Since B12 is mainly found in meat, and B12 deficiency is irreversible.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#98
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easily possible to overdose on oral Vitamin D tablets and damage your body.

Source? There have been many articles on HN showing the RDA to be ~10x too low (something like 5,000 IU) and that the daily safety limit to be significantly higher than that (something like 30,000 IU). Edit: for clarity I am not saying it is impossible to overdose on oral tablets, but rather that with most tablets 400 IU to 1000 IU and the safe limit so much higher than these, it seems like it would be extremely unli…

> Source? There have been many articles on HN showing the RDA to be ~10x too low (something like 5,000 IU) and that the daily safety limit to be significantly higher than that (something like 30,000 IU).

First: the RDA and the safety limit are not the same, and an RDA in a country being too low does not mean that the maximum safe dose is wrong.

And it certainly does not mean that there is a higher risk in under-dosing than overdosing when taking the RDA (which already includes recommendations for supplementing if you spend most of your time indoors).

I'm not a scientist, so I only know what physicians told me and what's explained in news publications or by consumer advocacy non-profits.

Here are a study (which I didn't read) and the NHS's advise on Vitamin D toxicity:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK557876/

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-...

The study says:

> Most cases of vitamin D toxicity resolve without serious complications or sequelae. However, in some instances, severe hypercalcemia can lead to acute renal failure requiring hemodialysis. Cases of permanent renal damage due to vitamin D toxicity are rare.

Which sounds good, but I don't think it supports that there is no risk of oral Vitamin D overdose.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#99

With depression it is important to find the cause of it. You might be depressed because you life objectively sucks. Then you symptoms are good and healthy and a signal to make changes in your circumstances. You might actually have a good life but still feel depressed because there is a chemical imbalance in your brain. (Very simplified). That is when drugs come in. It might be just a seasonal thing and you need to go…

That's the sorta standard socially accepted way of thinking about this. but uh... to a lot of people it doesn't ring quite true.

For example: if your life objectively sucks, why aren't you doing anything about it? Some people whose lives suck fix their lives, and other people get depressed and do nothing; what's the difference? And: all of us know somebody who appears to have a good life and therefore their depression is presumably a chemical imbalance thing but if you're being honest the vibes in their life are a bit off, actually, like you can tell they're not really getting everything they need out of it, that they're clearly good at masking (for example people who are clearly not thriving in their relationships) .... in which case sure medication could help but you can't shake the feeling that facing the reality of their life would help a lot more.

However! Questioning this stuff becomes a bit of a moral minefield. "Believing" in the chemical imbalance theory is part of why it's medically helpful. If your life has sucked for years and you could find no way of fixing it and then SSRIs helped, then you basically need to believe that it really was a chemical imbalance, because believing that it might not be threatens to take away the thing that's making your life work. So much so that I would bet at this point there are already readers of this comment who are ready to angrily reply to my preceding paragraphs, because the model I just described threatens their existence. (If so, wait a sec and read the rest...)

On the flip side, for some people not believing in the chemical imbalance model for some particular case might be important. Maybe they want to feel responsible for their life being bad, so they will be motivated to do something about it, and being happy due to drugs would make them feel complacent and okay with years passing by at a shitty job or something. Or picture someone whose parent has gone their whole life unable to take them seriously as an adult, which as a result means the child and parent have a bad relationship, and then picture the parent complaining about depression and taking medication for it. This can be really infuriating: the child thinks about the parent, "your life sucks because of the tension created by not treating people around you with respect, and you're so incapable of recognizing this even when it's told to your face regularly that you're taking drugs to feel better despite not fixing the problem". Now ascribing depression to medical problems seems like avoidance, and having people write off your frustrations and say that you're just depressed and need to take a drug for it is frustrating.

Just saying: the two narratives really get tangled up. I don't really know what to do about it, but I do think that some harm is done by harping on the concept of a "chemical imbalance". A lot of the issue is avoided if you just think of the drugs as helpful but don't choose any model (with its moral implications) for what exactly it is they're helping with. Just treat them as a tool for making you feel better.

Also, I suspect that people who have an intuitive aversion to mental health drugs are probably way overindexing on that intuition. I definitely did this for a long time, as did some friends I knew growing up. Turns out whatever your issues you can sometimes just deal with them sooner than later if you accept that doctors might be onto something. (Actually I think the reason people get stuck avoiding medication for so long is precisely that they feel like they're not allowed to be skeptical of them... which makes them kinda plant their feet in the ground and refuse to be open to it. That's kinda why I'm typing this long comment, to tell anyone reading that it is a reasonable thing to feel. And now that you know that maybe try them anyway..?)

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#100

With depression it is important to find the cause of it. You might be depressed because you life objectively sucks. Then you symptoms are good and healthy and a signal to make changes in your circumstances. You might actually have a good life but still feel depressed because there is a chemical imbalance in your brain. (Very simplified). That is when drugs come in. It might be just a seasonal thing and you need to go…

The problem with the "your life objectively sucks" option is when you end up too depressed to actually bother doing anything and just give up. That's another case where drugs can help.
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