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France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

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Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#91

Post by Nursie »

quotemstr wrote: post #88
Nursie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This site is social media. Is it? If so then I would say the term "social media" has more or less lost all meaning. To me HN is more like an old-school forum - it has a focus and it has a mod team to keep the rails on the discussion and keep the topics vaguely on topic.

My point is that it's hard to define social media in a way that excludes HN but includes the services that the activist sort thinks are disrespecting the gods of the city and corrupting the youth. Laws must be rooted in conduct, not identy.

I'm not convinced it's that hard. I've pointed out a few ways that it differs significantly.

There are others major differences like the lack of infinite doomscrolling, or the personalised feed to optimise engagement.

To the wider point that maybe we should be preventing kids from accessing classes of things rather than particular services - yeah probably, but it's much easier to manage a blocklist starting with the worst offenders, and that might be a good enough start down the path of harm reduction.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#92

Post by forty »

logicchains wrote: post #50
King-Aaron wrote: post #15

I don't like the idea of centralised digital ID for the obvious surveillance/privacy arguments and think that side of the conversation needs to be focused on. BUT, I also think that the Social Media experiment has shown that social media in general really, really sucks. It sucks for adults but it's objectively damaging to kids. So like, I am all for restricting kids from it, and honestly I'd happily see it regulated…

Social media is objectively damaging to the interests of the ruling class, who have been objectively damaging to western civilization during the past decades in which they had near-complete control over the flow of information. It'd be batshit crazy to go back to the times when information flow was centralized in the hands of a few corporations, just because a some neurotics can't handle the increased flow of informa…

> Social media is objectively damaging to the interests of the ruling class,

Maybe double check who owns and controls most social media platforms, and then think a bit if you'd categorize them more in the ruling class or working class.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#93

Post by enaaem »

logicchains wrote: post #53
mary-ext wrote: post #14

I've noticed that there's a decent amount of people who had benefitted having access to computer and internet really early on that seemed to be pro on banning teen access to social media, is there a reason why? the social media of today don't seem all that much different from the internet forums of back in the day if algorithmic amplification is the reason then I'm not sure why social media as a whole has to be banne…

>I've noticed that there's a decent amount of people who had benefitted having access to computer and internet really early on that seemed to be pro on banning teen access to social media Most of the people on this platform are left-leaning, and social media has allowed right-wing ideas to spread among the youth, ideas which they'd never have been exposed to if their information was filtered through left-leaning teac…

I would normally consider myself to be center right, but I cannot identify myself at all with the current right wing populists.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#94

Post by Nursie »

mattmark wrote: post #51
King-Aaron wrote: post #15

I don't like the idea of centralised digital ID for the obvious surveillance/privacy arguments and think that side of the conversation needs to be focused on. BUT, I also think that the Social Media experiment has shown that social media in general really, really sucks. It sucks for adults but it's objectively damaging to kids. So like, I am all for restricting kids from it, and honestly I'd happily see it regulated…

I’d like good social media regulated into existence. Let people take their data, move to a different service, set up redirects, have some meaningful ways to customize or reject algorithms, etc. I don’t think it’s likely to happen but one can hope.

That would be nice. Maybe take it back to a time when it was about forming and maintaining interpersonal connections rather than 'following' influencers and peddling ragebait.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#95

Post by jbstack »

thrance wrote: post #66
timpera wrote: post #22

Please note that the Conseil d'État, the highest French court for administrative matters, has issued a very skeptical opinion on this bill, saying that only the EU can impose new obligations onto digital platforms. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/01/27/french-l... > The amended and adopted text now states that "access to an online social network service provided by an online platform is prohibited for m…

Except the Conseil d'État is not a supreme court, so their opinion on the subject is irrelevant.

I don't know how it works in France, but in common law systems opinions of other courts are always at least capable of being persuasive (not binding) precedent, so they are not irrelevant. Other courts can be, and often are, influenced by persuasive precedent when appropriate.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#96

Post by energy123 »

softg wrote: post #77
energy123 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're doing this because it's bad for teen mental health, and polls keep showing 70% support and 15% opposition.

Why just teens though? Getting manipulated by algorithms crafted to maximize screentime and ad revenue is bad for anyone. These platforms rely on ads to survive. Which means it should be easy to regulate them. You can prevent them from selling ads at which point they will be forced to comply. If they don't, someone else will get the ad revenue. Europe is already hostile towards american tech giants anyways. The possi…

I share your vision about what ideal regulation looks like.

I don't share your cynicism pertaining to motives. Well, I am cynical about it, but in a non-conspiratorial way.

Politicians are feckless trend followers, cowardly in their disposition, preferring to follow the path of least resistance, and they lack any substantial vision or imagination themselves.

That explains why nothing bold is happening. And that lack of boldness is not unique to social media regulation.

That puts me squarely in the "this isn't perfect, but it's a good step" camp.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#97

Post by timpera »

thrance wrote: post #66
timpera wrote: post #22

Please note that the Conseil d'État, the highest French court for administrative matters, has issued a very skeptical opinion on this bill, saying that only the EU can impose new obligations onto digital platforms. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/01/27/french-l... > The amended and adopted text now states that "access to an online social network service provided by an online platform is prohibited for m…

Except the Conseil d'État is not a supreme court, so their opinion on the subject is irrelevant.

The décret establishing the list of social networks forbidden to the European law takes precedence over national law, so the effectiveness of the bill appears to be limited. The same thing happened with the French age verification bill for adult websites.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#98

Post by adev_ »

terespuwash wrote: post #39

What a weird idea to isolate teens from a platform instead of regulating it. It’s like if children were forbidden to drink a soda at a bar because they also sell alcohol. Enforcing platform’s safety and educating users (young and old) would be much better to help everyone be healthy in a connected world.

> It’s like if children were forbidden to drink a soda at a bar because they also sell alcohol

The comparison is wrong.

It would be more "It is like if children were forbidden to be in a smoker room, just because they are not the one consuming".

Yes they should be forbidden, because they do not need to smoke themselves to feel the negative effects.

Even without "porn", "murdering/violence" or other controversial content that can be found on social medias, just the negative effects of doomscrolling on the brain are harmful enough.

Their is plenty of studies that describe the effect it has on attention span, memory and cognitive capacity of kids.

https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=14350...

And lets face it: Over the last 10y, any attempt to regulate the platforms responsible of that failed miserably.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#99

Post by sunshine-o »

djtango wrote: post #29

Just the other day the FT put out an article that the current generation of graduates are so serially online that they freeze or go silent when faced with basic small talk questions. I have encountered this for myself. A few months ago New York banned phones at lunch and was discussed on HN [1] We live in times where parents and schools no longer have the authority to enforce behaviour and social media is peer pressu…

I feel all of this has been going on for the last 50 years. TV and video games were a substitute for a normal environment for kids to develop in the at the end of the last century.

> We live in times where parents and schools no longer have the authority to enforce behavior

Yes but the problem is much deeper.

I often observer various "families" with their kids on holidays. The French and the Brits are really a nightmare, strangely the same countries who are now banning social media. But my guess is this is more of chicken than an egg problem.

You will often have an hysterical woman, totally deranged and often alone, screaming constantly on the kids for no reasons. You wish you could call child protective services on them and this is only when they are "relaxing" on holiday.

We know those kids are gonna get into weird internet things and drugs anyway to escape this world. France can write any law they want it is not gonna solve the problem and send them back to any "equilibrium".

Blaming TV, video games and now social media 20 years late is just a way to avoid talking about the real problem.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#100

Post by ale42 »

vasco wrote: post #33
ifh-hn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't read the article because cloud flare won't let me, but how is this ban a violation of privacy? From my knowledge of social media it would likely increase the privacy of those not using these platforms.

Because under the guise of protecting children you now require the ID of everyone. And the service list will expand. Can't wait to have to swipe my ID to even start Chrome.

Switzerland created a digital ID platform (see also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45407657), that has been open sourced, and that would allow people to prove for example their age without revealing any other personal details. It's maybe not the perfect solution, but I find this highly preferable to sharing my ID with some social media platform.
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