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I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

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Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#91

Post by rubatuga »

greenknight wrote: post #53
wawayanda wrote: post #16

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

On the flip side, i had some pain in my chest... RUQ (right upper quadrant for those medical folk). On the way to the hospital, ChatGPT was pretty confident it was a issue with my gallbladder due to me having a fatty meal for lunch (but it was delicious). After an extended wait time to be seen, they didnt ask about anything like that, and at the end they were like anything else to add, added it in about ChatGPT / Gal…

If it was inflamed would your GGT level be high?

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#92

Post by nomel »

ytoawwhra92 wrote: post #62
nomel wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know it when I see it. This isn't a reasonable answer. No action can be taken and no conclusion/thought can be made from it. > Do you agree with that restriction? People should be able to perform and be informed about their own blood measurements, and possibly bring something up with their doctors outside of routine exams (which they may not even be insured for in the US). I think the restriction on medical advic…

> This isn't a reasonable answer. Sure it is. The world runs on human judgement. If you want me to rephrase I could say that the threshold for imperfection should reflect contemporary community standards, but Stewart's words are catchier. > I think the restriction on medical advice/conclusion, that results in treatment, is very good, otherwise you end up with "Wow, look at these results! you'll have to buy my snake o…

> I know it when I see it.

What's the most complex (in an information rich way) tool that you have seen?

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#93

Post by lugu »

wawayanda wrote: post #16

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

I am sorry I have to say so, but the value of LLM is their ability to reason based on their context. Don't use them as smart wikipedia (without context). To your use case, provide them with different textbook and practice handbook and with the medical history of the person. Then ask your question in a neutral way. Then ask it to verify their claim in another session and provide references.

It is so unfortunate that a general chatbot designed to answer anything was the first use case pushed. I get it when people are pissed.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#94

Post by theshrike79 »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #20

Health metrics are absolutely tarnished by a lack of proper context. Unsurprisingly, it turns out that you can't reliably take a concept as broad as health and reduce it to a number. We see the same arguments over and over with body fat percentages, vo2 max estimates, BMI, lactate thresholds, resting heart rate, HRV, and more. These are all useful metrics, but it's important to consider them in the proper context tha…

Measuring metrics is easy, it's the algorithm on the backend that matters.

There's a reason why Oura rings are expensive and it's not the hardware - you can get similar stuff for 50€ on Aliexpress.

But none of them predicted my Covid infection days in advance. Oura did.

A device like the Apple Watch that's on you 24/7 is good with TRENDS, not absolute measurements. It can tell you if your heart rate, blood oxygen or something else is more or less than before, statistically. For absolute measurements it's OK, but not exact.

And from that we can make educated guesses on whether a visit to a doctor is necessary.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#95

Post by sksksk »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #20

Health metrics are absolutely tarnished by a lack of proper context. Unsurprisingly, it turns out that you can't reliably take a concept as broad as health and reduce it to a number. We see the same arguments over and over with body fat percentages, vo2 max estimates, BMI, lactate thresholds, resting heart rate, HRV, and more. These are all useful metrics, but it's important to consider them in the proper context tha…

>This article gave an LLM a bunch of health metrics and then asked it to reduce it to a single score, didn't tell us any of the actual metric values, and then compared that to a doctor's opinion. Why anyone would expect these to align is beyond my understanding.

This gets to one of LLMs' core weaknesses, they blindly respond to your requests and rarely push back against the premise of it.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#96

Post by theshrike79 »

haldujai wrote: post #37
orionsbelt wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT has done more for my health than any doctor. Truly.

How so?

ChatGPT will actually look at your whole medical history, listen to you, think and check multiple different options before making a decision. You can spend hours chatting with it back and forth.

An average human doctor has maybe 15 minutes allotted to getting to know you, analyse and determine a course of action. Which is usually "take some ibuprofen and let's see if it goes away". Then you go again in two weeks with the same thing, it's a different doctor and the context has been reset unless you do an info dump from the previous visits and try not to forget anything.

And if you infodump too much or use actual medical diagnosis terms, the Dr gets defensive because you're stepping on THEIR area of expertise and will start pushing back even from the obvious just because they can.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#97

Post by smcl »

cameldrv wrote: post #69

I dunno, if the Apple Watch said he had a vo2max of 30, that probably means he can’t run a mile in less than 12 minutes or so. He’s probably not at all healthy…

Apple Watch is pretty poor at estimating VO2 max and it seems to be more correlated with how often you record exercises with said watch than with your actual health. For example I watched mine climb slowly as I prepared for my football season (beyond 50), then after the season started I I ended up playing and training just as frequently but without wearing the watch. After a few weeks (of me training and playing hard) during my next run it recorded me having a sharp decline in VO2 max (43-44ish iirc). When I started wearing it during training - you're not permitted during matches - it recorded me having a slow return to condition, without any changes to my routine.

That said if it's showing someone as having 30 I don't imagine they're going to be in spectacular condition

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#99

Post by gizajob »

wawayanda wrote: post #16

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

You’re pissed about your own stupidity? In asking for deep knowledge and medical advice from a Markov chain?

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#100

Post by inopinatus »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #20

Health metrics are absolutely tarnished by a lack of proper context. Unsurprisingly, it turns out that you can't reliably take a concept as broad as health and reduce it to a number. We see the same arguments over and over with body fat percentages, vo2 max estimates, BMI, lactate thresholds, resting heart rate, HRV, and more. These are all useful metrics, but it's important to consider them in the proper context tha…

Many of those metrics are population or sampling measures and are confounded by many factors at an individual level. The most notorious of which is BMI; it is practically a category error to infer someone's health or risk by individual BMI, and yet doing so remains widespread amongst people that are supposed to know better.

Instrumentation and testing become primarily useful at an individual level to explain or investigate someone's disease or disorder, or to screen for major risk factors, and the hazards and consequences of unnecessary testing outweigh the benefits in all but a few cases. For which your GP and/or government will (or should) routinely screen those at actual risk, which is why I pooped in a jar last week and mailed it.

An athlete chasing an ever-better VO2max or FTP hasn't necessarily got it wrong, however. We can say something like, "Bjorn Daehlie’s results are explained by extraordinary VO2max", with an implication that you should go get results some other way because you're not a five-sigma outlier. But at the pointy end of elite sport, there's a clear correlation between marginal improvement of certain measures and competitive outcomes, and if you don't think the difference of 0.01sec between first and third matters then you've never stood on a podium. Or worse, next to one. When mistakes are made and performance deteriorates, it's often due to chasing the wrong metric(s) for the athlete at hand, generally a failure of coaching.

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