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House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

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Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single people don't care, and they are becoming the majority of adults and probably more likely consume porn too.

I have always wondered how this would go if you applied for a loan through your bank. Or a rental that wanted 'last three months financial transactions' in the application.

I'm confused by what you mean (I'm an American though).

I don't think I'm unique for putting miscellaneous stuff like this on a credit card, and not even necessarily the one my bank offers. Not to hide the transaction, but because charging to debit/checking would make tracking my monthly expenses less straightforward. Payments online are also safer on credit in case a chargeback is required.

Also, are you sure you don't mean "proof of employment" showing the last three months of direct deposits? I've never heard of anyone asking for any other transactions. Similarly, pretty sure loan applications are based on credit reports. Transactions aren't relevant unless they got flagged for something so bad they showed up in the credit report (fraud, missed/late payments, etc).

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Stella Liebeck was seriously injured by that McDonald's coffee and it's a myth perpetuated by the McDonald's PR team that it was a frivolous lawsuit. She was in the hospital for eight days and required skin grafts. Do some research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaura... "Liebeck's attorneys argued that, at 180–190 °F (82–88 °C), McDonald's coffee was defective, and more likely to cause serious injury than coffee served at any other establishment"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#Preparing_the_beverage "Optimal coffee extraction occurs between 91 and 96 °C (196 and 205 °F).Ideal holding temperatures range from 85 to 88 °C (185 to 190 °F) to as high as 93 °C (199 °F), and the ideal serving temperature is 68 to 79 °C (154 to 174 °F).

I'm aware of the injuries she incurred. I think it is frivolous because hot temperatures are simply part of the nature of coffee. McDonalds did not select the vehicle with out cup holders for Stella. McDonalds did not select the sweatpants that Stella chose to wear. McDonalds didn't spill the coffee in her lap. Lastly, even non-coffee drinkers are aware that coffee is hot.

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#93

I'm in the UK and I've been involved in advocating for this. I find it utterly frustrating to read the "think of the children" mockery here on HN. I argue that this is good. There's many reasons why children having unfettered access to the internet and different campaigners care about different aspects, so I'm going to talk about the one I care about: addiction, destroyed ability to focus, and dopamine desensitizatio…

It seems you want to talk about other things rather than the VPN age-gating or the online safety act this post is about. I'll engage with the content of this post.

> but then force you to send your children to schools that give them ipads and other distractions

What does the online safety act (OSA) or this VPN age check do to prevent this? Are the "ipads" at school giving the users "unfettered access to the internet"? That seems a bit irresponsible, however I would think that your ire should instead be directed towards the schools? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

> In addition to the fact that phones are engineered to be addictive

Is it the phones or the content? I interpret your views as someone who should be campaigning for phones and other "distractions" to be restricted in a school environment, however the OSA and this VPN age check do not appear to tackle this.

> there's a huge problem with people addicted to phones and children are especially vulnerable

I will assume this is true for the sake of conversation. Similar to my previous query, how does the OSA or this VPN age check tackle this problem? Will banning certain types of content prevent this, or perhaps shift it? Instead of social media, would it be preferable if children were playing games on their phone? If they were then "addicted" to gaming or socialising around a popular game, would the proposal be at that point to ban children from playing games on their phone? To me, it seems the problem is less the content and more that the environment is setup in certain ways that allows this. It is unclear to me how banning and gating certain content will prevent this.

> different campaigners care about different aspects, so I'm going to talk about the one I care about: addiction, destroyed ability to focus, and dopamine desensitization

What kind of things are you pushing outside of banning material and gating access? Is there a push for educating parents of the dangers of this "addiction"? Perhaps informing people about how to use parental controls to limit the access their children have? Is there a push on companies to provide robust, and easy-to-use parental controls? I feel that parents should have the tools, yet it seems that we consider the problem out of the parents control. Why is that? If parents make an informed choice and choose differently to you, should they be allowed to do so?

> I don't care if adults are vulnerable, they have to make their own decisions.

I feel that if you are caring about children accessing "addicting" material that you should also care about your fellow citizens accessing the same. How would those adults know that this material is addictive? Are they being informed by the state? What avenues are there for them to get help? It seems that the OSA and this VPN age check do not provide any assistance to people that are perhaps already addicted, or preventing people from falling into that trap. Does the care only extend to children and no further? Should we care about building sturdy adults regardless if they are currently children or not?

My general thoughts on this is that there appears to be a lot of restriction and preventing people from accessing certain content, however very little on informing people on what those perceived dangers are. The UK government is especially keen on this restriction, yet I am seeing no push towards informing people, or providing assistance for those afflicted. To me, the proposed motivation and the implementation are incongruent with each other. The perception of safety, as opposed to an improvement in real world safety.

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this becomes law, then yes. But then people will turn to VPS providers instead and set up their own VPNs, which will then prompt a law to demand age verification before renting any server. I wonder how far they're willing to go down this rabbit hole.

You're implying pervasive KYC and tying everything to your real-life identity is some unfortunate side-effect rather than a deliberate end. I have contempt for people who pass policies such as these but I do not think them foolish; they are likely aware of what will happen.

the purpose of a system is what it does, not what it purports to do. doubly so, if it does what it purports to do poorly but does something else very well. this system purports to protect children from adult content online but what it does is offer a legal justification for eliminating any and all anonymity.

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK already has ISP's blocking sites. Anyone that ignores the law will be blocked, will be interesting to see what happens if they end up blocking one of the cloud megascalers.

Hilarious that they think they can prevent motivated people from accessing information using technical measures. China has been working on this for decades. It's a lost battle. Shadowsocks, V2Ray, xray; protocols like vmess, vless, trojan, etc. The British government, for all their effort (London has a higher geographic density of CCTV than Beijing) is wasting their time competing for the gold medal at International…

Depends on the how you formulate the goal in the totalitarianism olympics. The goal of totalitarian regimes is not really to completely prevent the flow of information to motivated people. It simply needs to raise the motivation bar high enough so that all but the select few is fed only government-approved propaganda. The few that retain access is tolerated as long as they don't raise a stink. In this view, the efforts of China or Iran is fairly successful.

The UK has a different flavor of authoritarianism centered on surveillance to (ineffectively) improve "safety", and general paternalism at all levels. It doesn't really intend to prevent the flow of information all that much.

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wondered how this would go if you applied for a loan through your bank. Or a rental that wanted 'last three months financial transactions' in the application.

I'm confused by what you mean (I'm an American though). I don't think I'm unique for putting miscellaneous stuff like this on a credit card, and not even necessarily the one my bank offers. Not to hide the transaction, but because charging to debit/checking would make tracking my monthly expenses less straightforward. Payments online are also safer on credit in case a chargeback is required. Also, are you sure you do…

I once rented a place where you needed either a decent credit rating or three months of full bank statements to prove income. (Paycheck stubs were not deemed sufficient.) Very invasive, fortunately I passed the requirements and didn’t need to provide that info.

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#97
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this would easily be solved by just banning social media. Nothing will convince me they are a net-positive to society.

If you apply the logic of your comment's parent to your suggestion you'll discover that banning social media would soon lead to using any and all communication under mandatory supervision and only after an application and a written permission for every individual act of communication.

Did banning heroin soon lead to consuming any and all substances under mandatory supervision and only after an application and written permission for every individual act of consumption?

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#98
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not the same people. I doubt that most of the people pushing for mandatory restrictions on child access care about privacy at all.

You will be surprised by the number of people (even among self proclaimed libertarians) who think children have no rights and are essentially their parents' properties.

Granted, but that's different than thinking they're the states property.

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#99
post #52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this would easily be solved by just banning social media. Nothing will convince me they are a net-positive to society.

At the risk of doing a "you participate in society", would that include HN?

That depends if it's social media.

Re: House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs

#100
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this would easily be solved by just banning social media. Nothing will convince me they are a net-positive to society.

The government shouldn't be limiting any legal communications over the internet

That's a tautology. The limited communications are illegal.
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