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Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#91

Post by GordonS »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #75
GordonS wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Scotland, there are some days when there is one traffic car covering an area the size of England, Scotland is smaller than England, so this makes no sense. Furthermore, anyone who drives regularly in Scotland knows this to be completely false - there are plenty of traffic cops around (sometimes incognito too), and they are sometimes even seen waiting in rural and semi-rural areas.

Again, there are not. The number has fallen significantly...I am not sure what you are arguing with (or why). You can just check because the number of police and the number of traffic police is reported. If you just Google, you will see that the current staffing level for overnight in Scotland is two cars for traffic police. I live in a rural area, I have done so for two/three decades. When I moved here, you very oft…

> Hilarious to see pearl-clutching when people point out the SNP has been doing this after complaining about the Tories. This is why the UK is so shit, reality doesn't matter, just politics.

I'm not sure where this tirade came from; I wasn't arguing in favour of any political party.

But getting back to the matter of traffic police - I have eyes, and I can see traffic cops with them. I have family in the force elsewhere in Scotland too, so I know that what you're saying simply isn't true. I really don't know why you are making this false claim.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#92

Post by mercanlIl »

stronglikedan wrote: post #29
mercanlIl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a bit biased here, because a close friend’s mother was killed by someone speeding through a red light. I think automated enforcement of minor driving infractions is a good thing. More efficient use of government resources. Incentivizes drivers to follow the rules of the road.

Except that this: > automated enforcement of minor driving infractions Would not have prevented this: > someone speeding through a red light It's the think-of-the-children fallacy

Why not? Knowing you’re going to get caught and fined for running a red light, which typically holds significant penalties, would act as a deterrent.

You can lose your license for that kind of nonsense (via demerit points), and they’d have it on camera.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#93

Post by cbeach »

watwut wrote: post #86
cbeach wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd seen the before/after video clips you'd understand that this is a pretty big deal. The BBC spliced two separate video clips nearly 1hr apart to make out that Trump was an insurrectionist. Original quote: "We’re gonna walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women" Manipulated BBC version of quote: "We’re gonna walk down to the Capitol, and I'll be there wit…

And still, overwhelming majority of manipulation os making Trump saner and more coherent And yes, he was responsibke for the violent attempt to overthrow the election. And yes he is both criminal amd failed businessman.

For someone who's a criminal and a failure, he seems to be doing a lot of good for the American people.

Inflation down, stock markets at record highs, real GDP growth up, energy prices stable and US energy production at record high levels.

Low unemployment, high wage growth, small-business optimism surveys improved, massive growth in foreign inward investment, illegal border crossings nearly completely eliminated,

Venezuela's evil narco-terrorist illegitimate leader in prison, Iran's nuclear threat eliminated, ceasefire achieved in Gaza, and a Trump-led, UN-approved Board of Peace established to continue the humanitarian aid and rebuild the Gaza strip.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#94

Post by mercanlIl »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #54
jen20 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, it does. People worried about getting a fine will not chance a light on yellow. This is patently obvious for anyone that has ever driven in London (where I learned to drive). Anyone that doesn't care about the fine (perhaps in a stolen car) may still do it, but they'd do it regardless.

Ah yes, the risk of small fines that is why people won't do dangerous things. Have we tried a £50 fine for murder? Economist brain. The problem is very simple: driving tests aren't hard enough, too many people have driving licences, and we don't retest people. In addition, enforcement of people driving without a licence is completely pathetic (as anyone who has driven in the UK can attest to, the stuff I have seen ov…

Some of these infractions also carry the risk of losing your license. So it is more than just the fine.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#95

Post by ceejayoz »

josephcsible wrote: post #43
watwut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing unprofessional about it. Austria and German have cameras and send the ticket to the owner of the car - based on the plates. There is no reason to insist this must be face to face thing.

This story is exactly the reason to insist that: cars can be driven by people other than their owners.

"Hey, you got a ticket when you borrowed my car. Pay me back or you don't get to borrow it next time."

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#96

Post by youngtaff »

londons_explore wrote: post #65
ninalanyon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~30% of motorists receive a fine in any given year. Really? Or have you (or someone else) just divided the number of fines by the number of motorists?

Original source: https://www.racfoundation.org/media-centre/drivers-receiving... I suspect the division method.

Parking Charge Notices are really fines

Most traffic related fines are voluntary in my view… don’t speed and you won’t get one

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#97

Post by youngtaff »

limagnolia wrote: post #90
atonse wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. As much as I hate speed cameras, the way they’ve been implemented (meaning, the fact that you get a letter with evidence and it’s clear you committed the offense, and usually no points, like you might get from a cop) seems to strike a balance of fair punishment. Now, whether they’re that effective at reducing speeding is a bigger question. Because people just slam the brakes for the 100 feet around the ca…

Are the UK cameras non-mobile and clearly marked? Making the cameras mobile and not making them obvious should fix that problem.

Still plenty of mobile cameras in the UK

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#98

Post by youngtaff »

EmptyCoffeeCup wrote: post #57
dmix wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More specifically Tesla basically just paid a small set of automated speeding camera fines on behalf of their leasing customers, which include some glorified late charges because they didn't reply promptly.

Very happy - the £100 fine isn't the problem, it's the points/day-wasted-on-useless-course that is the real deterrent to speeding. And before people say "think of the children" and "I learned something I should have already known on the course" - Speed limits are increasingly being changed for political reasons: Safety has nothing to do with it, therefore, these arguments no longer stand (my local authority is determ…

What speed limits are being changed for political reasons?

Reducing the speed limit to 20mph in large parts of Wales reduced injuries and accidents so much so that insurers have reduced premiums

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#99

Post by amiga386 »

RansomStark wrote: post #76
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that for Royal Mail at least, proof of posting is considered sufficient to work as proof of receipt.

that's difficult when most post is dropped in a metal box on a street. But I'd argue that not the issue people have with the way these laws work in practice. For those that don't use the UK postal service, Royal Mail has a recorded delivery option that can show that, at least something, mostly likely what was sent, was delivered to the address. The issue here is that the UK government has given itself a pass that, 't…

The Scottish court system uses Royal Mail Signed For to send citations, I believe it makes two attempts to deliver, and won't consider the citation delivered unless the named addressee signs for it.

...on the other hand, if you don't respond to citations e.g. for a criminal case, they might then escalate by issuing a warrant for your arrest.

Looking at the English civil courts, I'm having trouble parsing their rules:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rule...

My reading is that either the court sends the summons (claim form) and comes to its own conclusion if it has been served or not, but if you choose to do it or have a process server do it, you have to submit a certificate of service to the court. If you do that, all it says they require is the method and date you sent it, no proof it got delivered!

Furthermore, rule 6.18 says that if the court posts the claim form itself, it will inform you if the form is returned to them undelivered... but will deem it "served" anyway, provided you gave them the correct address?

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#100

Post by josephcsible »

ceejayoz wrote: post #95
josephcsible wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story is exactly the reason to insist that: cars can be driven by people other than their owners.

"Hey, you got a ticket when you borrowed my car. Pay me back or you don't get to borrow it next time."

If you break the government's rules, that should be between you and the government. I shouldn't have to front the cost of any fines or otherwise be in the middle of it.
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