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Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

eieio.games

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Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#91

Post by wizzwizz4 »

eieio wrote: post #53
kenmacd wrote: post #48

@eieio: whatever email protection you're running is triggering on the extension info. For example I see: > And they’re sent to servers that advertise the availability of the [email protected] extension. What if we just…don’t advertise [email protected]?

Is it possible that this is on your end? The extension is "ping@openssh.com." It shows up in the blog reliably for me across several browsers and devices.

No, it's Cloudflare munging the HTML. Cloudflare then provides JavaScript to un-munge it, but that's not reliable.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#92

Post by davidhyde »

I wonder if this is the same reason why Microsoft's Remote SSH plugin on VS Code is so flaky even with a decent internet connection. Every couple of months I try to give it another go and give up due to the poor keyboard latency I inevitably experience. And the slow reconnects whenever I glance away from my computer monitor briefly. This is on a fiber connection with a 20ms ping to the remote machine.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#94

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

Animats wrote: post #84

In 2023, ssh added keystroke timing obfuscation. The idea is that the speed at which you type different letters betrays some information about which letters you’re typing. So ssh sends lots of “chaff” packets along with your keystrokes to make it hard for an attacker to determine when you’re actually entering keys. Now that's solving the problem the wrong way. If you really want that, send all typed characters at 50m…

Typing with an extra 50ms latency will be fairly unpleasant.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#95

Post by braiamp »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #94
Animats wrote: post #84

In 2023, ssh added keystroke timing obfuscation. The idea is that the speed at which you type different letters betrays some information about which letters you’re typing. So ssh sends lots of “chaff” packets along with your keystrokes to make it hard for an attacker to determine when you’re actually entering keys. Now that's solving the problem the wrong way. If you really want that, send all typed characters at 50m…

Typing with an extra 50ms latency will be fairly unpleasant.

Also considering ssh tunnels.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#96

Post by eieio »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #91
eieio wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that this is on your end? The extension is "ping@openssh.com." It shows up in the blog reliably for me across several browsers and devices.

No, it's Cloudflare munging the HTML. Cloudflare then provides JavaScript to un-munge it, but that's not reliable.

TIL! I'll see if I can change that.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#97

Post by [deleted] »

PaulHoule wrote: post #37

I find it disturbing. One thing you notice if you have ADSL is that some services are built as if slower connections matter and others are not. Like Google's voice and audio chat services work poorly but most of the others work well. Uploading images to Mastodon, Bluesky, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram and Nextdoor is reliable, but for Tumblr you have to try it twice. I don't what they are doing wrong but they are doi…

[deleted]

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#98

Post by MrDarcy »

JohnLeitch wrote: post #93

The reliance on LLMs is unfortunate. I bet this mystery could gave been solved much quicker by simply looking at the packet capture in Wireshark. The Wireshark dissectors are quite mature, SSH is covered fairly well.

How much are you staking on that bet?

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#99

Post by arwineap »

eieio wrote: post #34
svnt wrote: post #25

> I am working on a high-performance game that runs over ssh. Found your problem. But it is an interesting world where you can casually burrow into a crypto library and disable important security features more easily than selecting the right network layer solution.

the obtuseness is the point! This is true of a lot of my work[1][2][3]. The problems you run into when doing things you shouldn't do are often really fun. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42342382 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37810144 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42674116

This is hackernews not consumer news

You should feel free to explore / abuse all options :)

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#100

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

davidhyde wrote: post #92

I wonder if this is the same reason why Microsoft's Remote SSH plugin on VS Code is so flaky even with a decent internet connection. Every couple of months I try to give it another go and give up due to the poor keyboard latency I inevitably experience. And the slow reconnects whenever I glance away from my computer monitor briefly. This is on a fiber connection with a 20ms ping to the remote machine.

You surely mean the latency in its embedded terminal and not the code editor, right? I use VSCode’s remote SSH specifically so that code editing doesn’t suck. It really does not.
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