Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections • Hacker News Board

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#91

Post by the_snooze » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:14 AM UTC

travisgriggs wrote: post #18

gpt5 wrote: post #5

The most important feature of public elections is trust. Efficiency is one of the least important feature. When we moved away from paper voting with public oversight of counting to electronic voting we significantly deteriorated trust, we made it significantly easier for a hostile government to fake votes, all for marginal improvements in efficiency which don't actually matter. Moving to internet voting will further…

What if some level of efficiency (not necessarily internet) improves turnout and participation?

There are non-internet ways to do that. States are really the "laboratories of democracy" on that front, with different states having affordances like long early-voting periods and mail-in voting.

However, those are in the context of whatever political system they're in. No level of efficient election design is going to put a dent in the fact that California loves direct-elected downballot offices (e.g., treasurer, controller, insurance commissioner, state judges, local judges, etc.) and referenda, which all result in super long and complicated ballots with 50+ questions each.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#92

Post by phanimahesh » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:16 AM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #63

ggm wrote: post #3

I live in an economy where people vote with pencils on paper in cardboard booths and at scalable cost, it just works. Obviously the cost also has to scale linearly for the 200+m voter economies, and time becomes a factor, but for community acceptance I still think paper and pen/pencil beats machine hands down. (this is Australia. we have compulsory attendance at voting booths for eligible citizens, you can spoil your…

I've heard great things about the way that India votes. It sounds like their Election Commission takes their job very seriously.

Very. Every voter is guaranteed a booth nearby (https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/5/8/an-election-booth...

Also https://www.reuters.com/world/india/family-remote-himalayas-...

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#93

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:17 AM UTC

rmunn wrote: post #84

rmunn wrote: post #45

The thing about paper ballots is that the ways to cheat with them are well-known ("finding" ballots in the trunk of a car, "losing" ballot boxes on the way to the counting center, counting the ballots behind locked doors with observers not present, and so on), and have been well known for centuries. So the counters to them (ballot boxes sealed with an official seal once full, only sealed ballot boxes will be opened a…

P.S. On the subject of counting ballots behind closed doors, look up Athens, TN in 1946 if you haven't heard about it before. It's a fascinating story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29 has a very long account, but the short version is: the sheriff of McMinn County was widely believed to be cheating on ballots by, among other things, having his deputies count the ballots behind closed doors. I…

There's a town in Alabama that skipped elections for 60 years; they'd just hand it off to a buddy. Someone finally registered to run and won by default, so ten days later they had a secret do-over to avoid a Black mayor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbern,_Alabama#Mayoral_dispu...

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#94

Post by defrost » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:18 AM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #93

rmunn wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S. On the subject of counting ballots behind closed doors, look up Athens, TN in 1946 if you haven't heard about it before. It's a fascinating story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29 has a very long account, but the short version is: the sheriff of McMinn County was widely believed to be cheating on ballots by, among other things, having his deputies count the ballots behind closed doors. I…

There's a town in Alabama that skipped elections for 60 years; they'd just hand it off to a buddy. Someone finally registered to run and won by default, so ten days later they had a secret do-over to avoid a Black mayor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbern,_Alabama#Mayoral_dispu...

Alabama Goddam

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#95

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:19 AM UTC

irishcoffee wrote: post #64

bikelang wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have mail voting as a default in Colorado. When you get your license you are registered to vote and opted in automatically. The one piece that might improve it further is if it came with a stamp to mail back. Otherwise you just drop it off at a drive-up ballot box. You can also vote in person if you want. Hardly anybody does it so there’s never a line. You get text messages each step of the process too. “Your ball…

How do they prevent double voting?

The ballots envelopes (not the ballots themselves) are keyed to the voter's identity. When the ballot is removed (not until the signature is verified and not contested), the voter is counted as voted, so if they double vote, then the second vote will be rejected. Likewise if you try to vote by mail and then at the poll, you are flagged before you even try to vote.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#96

Post by burnt-resistor » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:21 AM UTC

In person and by mail voting with a blockchain ledger-based receipt is how to prove one's vote is counted anonymously.

There must always be a paper trail and a blockchain ledger provides the most reliable and secure means to maintain integrity.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#97

Post by rmunn » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:21 AM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #93

rmunn wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S. On the subject of counting ballots behind closed doors, look up Athens, TN in 1946 if you haven't heard about it before. It's a fascinating story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29 has a very long account, but the short version is: the sheriff of McMinn County was widely believed to be cheating on ballots by, among other things, having his deputies count the ballots behind closed doors. I…

There's a town in Alabama that skipped elections for 60 years; they'd just hand it off to a buddy. Someone finally registered to run and won by default, so ten days later they had a secret do-over to avoid a Black mayor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbern,_Alabama#Mayoral_dispu...

Hadn't heard about that one. Fascinating. Especially since the Black mayor then challenged the secret do-over, won, as was reinstated as mayor. Then the next year there was an actual election for the first time in over 60 years, and the Black mayor won reelection 66 to 26. Not 66% to 26%, 66 votes to 26 votes. Which just goes to show what a small town that was.

P.S. Population of that town in 2020, according to the census? 133 people.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#98

Post by davidmurphy » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:22 AM UTC

I agree.

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#99

Post by bluGill » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:22 AM UTC

rmunn wrote: post #88

john_minsk wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. If the system is transparent enough and provides mechanisms for verification and control - No reason to distrust it. I would prefer a system where even in 20 years I can go online and check how my vote was counted in older elections - this way stealing my vote would be impossible. The issue is how to preserve privacy...

> I would prefer a system where even in 20 years I can go online and check how my vote was counted in older elections - this way stealing my vote would be impossible. Understandable, but then vote-buying becomes possible. The reason vote-buying is impossible in a secret ballot is because you can't prove how you voted to anyone else. If you can look up your own ballot even five minutes after it's dropped into the box,…

Vote buying and worse 'vote for me or I'll shoot you'. Buying is the more common scam but there are worse options for evil people

Re: Internet voting is insecure and should not be used in public elections

#100

Post by GuB-42 » Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 2:23 AM UTC

terminalshort wrote: post #29

Which of these vulnerabilities do not apply to any other internet system? And yet all of everyone's money is accessible over the internet and that seems to be working fine. If they really care about security at this level then they should ban all non in person voting methods.

> If they really care about security at this level then they should ban all non in person voting methods.

Many countries do exactly that, sometimes with a few exceptions (ex: expats, disabilities, ...).

One problem with internet voting that does not apply to money is the "receipt-free" aspect. That is, a voter should not be able to prove that he voted for a particular candidate, as it would allow for vote buying, threats, etc... And it is a hard problem. With money transactions, you generally want the opposite, which is an easier problem.