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Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#91

Post by colechristensen »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #29
colechristensen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The militias are cosplaying cowards, the actual people of Minnesota are ramping up and succeeding in resisting ICE. There is a nonzero chance there will be a standoff between the national guard and the army in Minneapolis. Trump is trying to incite an insurrection so he politically gets a free hand to do whatever he wants. If Congress and the courts are too slow or too cowardly to get anything done, he might get what…

What militias? I always thought the state nat guard were the modern militias not the fat old man LARPers you hear talking in gun stores.

The definition of "militias" tends to depend on your political affiliation and the interpretation of that word is often a strong argument determined by how you felt about the 2nd amendment.

The framers certainly didn't think of militias either as the professional standing force that is the national guard nor could they probably even conceive of these little gun enthusiast wannabe paramilitary groups (or maybe if they wondered what if Don Quixote was an enormous asshole and also a small group instead of just a man)

But you get a group of people together, arm them, and give them the goal of being ready to use those arms for one purpose or another... that's a militia. It's a pretty broad term lots of folks want to shove into a pretty narrow definition.

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#92

Post by colechristensen »

vkou wrote: post #68
colechristensen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The politics of fear stoked by two sets of extremists egging eachother on is the core reason we're in this mess, the failure to reject both simultaneously and the desire to rule with feelings instead of facts caused it all. I'm not a "whatabout" guy, I'm actively opposed to both extremes. The far left is just as capable of ruling with violence as the far right, they just haven't got the opportunity in this country ye…

> The politics of fear stoked by two sets of extremists egging eachother on is the core reason we're in this mess, How could you possibly think that the establishment dems that have formed government are 'a set of extremists'?

I'm mostly writing about the electorate here.

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#93

Post by colechristensen »

rainsford wrote: post #86
colechristensen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many people are like this. Their ideals only apply when they benefit people they like.

I used to have that perspective, but I actually think it's even simpler than selective application of principles or hypocrisy as the parent commentator put it. It's not so much that they believe in an ideal but struggle to apply it when doing so isn't in their favor and more that their guiding premise is that things should always go their way and they adopt the language, but not the intent, of a deeper principle beca…

We don't disagree. I suppose "their ideals only apply when... " and saying "they don't actually hold the ideals they claim" really are the same thing.

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#94

Post by nobody9999 »

colechristensen wrote: post #30
cheema33 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have meant to excuse the sad state we are in by presenting the "both sides are bad" argument. But it does have a strong whiff of it. Both sides are bad. No doubt about it. It has always been that way. But, one side takes being bad to a whole new level. Our choice has always been between bad and less bad. The voters decided to pull the lever for "massively bad" during the last presidential election because…

The politics of fear stoked by two sets of extremists egging eachother on is the core reason we're in this mess, the failure to reject both simultaneously and the desire to rule with feelings instead of facts caused it all. I'm not a "whatabout" guy, I'm actively opposed to both extremes. The far left is just as capable of ruling with violence as the far right, they just haven't got the opportunity in this country ye…

>The politics of fear stoked by two sets of extremists egging eachother on is the core reason we're in this mess, the failure to reject both simultaneously and the desire to rule with feelings instead of facts caused it all.

Pol Pot[0] was a leftist extremist. Chairman Mao[1] was a leftist extremist. As were the Red Brigades[2] and the Symbionese Liberation Army[3], etc., etc., ,etc. Who in the US Democratic Party advocates for the same things as those guys? Let's see. No one.

In fact, the only ones in the US who've shown an interest in nationalizing the means of production (c.f. Intel) or putting down the Intelligentsia and normalizing violence against those who criticize the regime are just one set of extremists. Because extremists end up going full circle -- because for them it's about power and not ideology.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#95

Post by Ferret7446 »

tptacek wrote: post #81
Ferret7446 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is fraud legal for citizens? (Since you brought it up as a point)

No, but the premise of the ICE/CBP flood to MN is that the fraud is being conducted by deportable people. Note that ICE/CBP has no statutory authority to enforce fraud laws.

My understanding is that the "flood" is due to the state not assisting and arguably impeding ICE, vs states like Florida where the state is cooperating so they don't need as much ICE to do the work. It sounds like the fraud is being used as a red herring by detractors.

AFAIK, committing fraud does not protect illegal immigrants from deportation, which seems to be the implied conclusion here. If ICE deports illegal immigrants who are also committing fraud, I can't see how that is a minus rather than a plus.

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#96

Post by PyWoody »

dingi wrote: post #24

Genuine question to US folks: Why do you guys seem to be hell bent on keeping and welcoming large number of illegal immigrants in your country? Almost no other country does that except western ones. From an outsider’s viewpoint, current approach of letting almost anyone in does not seem to work that well.

  The New Colossus
  
  
  Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
  With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
  Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
  A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
  Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
  Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
  Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
  The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
  “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
  With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
  Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
  The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
  Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
  I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#97

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

rolph wrote: post #75
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US from your link > The Militia Act of 1903 divided what had been the militia into what it termed the "organized" militia, created from portions of the former state guards to become state National Guard units

yes, the present national guard is very much a government entity, and held to the same training standards as federal armed forces. they regularily hold joint training. the people at large however are not prevented from forming a militia or a posse, or volunteering to be deputized by a local police force. the common element is that they are responding to a domestic threat originated from government activities. the ori…

Many US states also have a state guard that is under the sole control of the state government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force

These forces are distinct from the state's National Guard and cannot be federalized.

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#98

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

the__alchemist wrote: post #10

As a veteran, I have optimism these active duty military troops will recognize their duty. "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". ICE is the best example of a domestic enemy I have seen.

The full oath is as follows

10 U.S.C. S: 502

S: 502. Enlistment oath: who may administer

(a) Enlistment Oath.- Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:

I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God)."

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#99

Post by tptacek »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #95
tptacek wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but the premise of the ICE/CBP flood to MN is that the fraud is being conducted by deportable people. Note that ICE/CBP has no statutory authority to enforce fraud laws.

My understanding is that the "flood" is due to the state not assisting and arguably impeding ICE, vs states like Florida where the state is cooperating so they don't need as much ICE to do the work. It sounds like the fraud is being used as a red herring by detractors. AFAIK, committing fraud does not protect illegal immigrants from deportation, which seems to be the implied conclusion here. If ICE deports illegal im…

Nobody claimed that "committing fraud protects illegal immigrants from deportation", and I don't understand how that even makes sense.

Re: Around 1,500 soldiers on standby for deployment to Minneapolis

#100

Post by Cornbilly »

quantummagic wrote: post #88
ryandrake wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You can pretend all you want. The proof is in the reality of what we see. Mass illegal immigration is not a center-right or even left position. It's a "far left" position that has had enough political power to be enforced for years now.

The Libertarian Party advocates for free and open immigration. Are you going to sit here and tell us that the Libertarians are far-left?
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