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Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

bundesregierung.de

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Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#91

Post by croon »

jimmydddd wrote: post #46
ben_w wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say "think differently", they said "promoting fascism". If you look at J6 attempted self-coup where people were chanting death threats agaisnt the vice president and had a hangman's noose ready and pipe bombs were found and say "that was a peaceful protest", while also looking at the woman who was shot dead through the side window of her car while departing from a group of ICE officers and call that "self…

The problem is that after years of people crying "facism" for mean tweets, lowering coprorate taxes and eforcing a national border, the term has lost any meaning. Maybe we need a new term?

The people crying fascism years ago were right, and now it's here. It hasn't lost meaning, too many people just liked the fascism.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#92

Post by mna_ »

Chance-Device wrote: post #50

I’ll put myself in the minority here by saying that I think Trump is probably right. Greenland can’t be credibly defended by Denmark, the EU or even NATO. Article 5 is an untested foundation myth. Greenland is far away. Political will matters. We might be heading towards an independent Greenland if we continue following the status quo, which would be influenced strongly by adversaries and would be a US security night…

>Article 5 is an untested foundation myth.

See:

>NATO invoked Article 5 in response to Al Qaeda's terrorist attacks against the United States on 11 September 2001

https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/coll...

Now take a look at the European countries who helped the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

Then scroll down to "Dead". Those Europeans died for the United States.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#93

Post by Chance-Device »

optionalsquid wrote: post #90
Incipient wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If trump is actually deranged enough to use military force against Greenland we'll see how capable the EU is of defending it - and I suspect they'll put on a good show. What the EU wouldn't be able to handle, I suspect, is would be a full ground invasion by China, not that China would/needs to do that. If the US was genuinely concerned about the security of Greenland they should have discussed this with the EU and en…

> If the US was genuinely concerned about the security of Greenland they should have discussed this with the EU and encouraged them to reinforce the island, and/or offered a joint base. This is where it gets stupid... well, stupider. The US already has a base on Greenland, namely the Pituffik Space Base / Thule Air Base [1]. The US used to have a larger military presence in Greenland, including other bases, but choos…

That requires Denmark and the EU to be reliable defense partners. They had decades to invest in Greenland and its defense and what we end up with is a 12 member dogsled patrol armed with bolt action rifles, so they can defend themselves against polar bears.

The EU response to the rhetoric from Trump is to send 30 men and put out a press release telling everyone how harmless they are. The action “Poses no threat to anyone”. Their military show of force, poses no threat to anyone.

This is who you’re dealing with.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#94

Post by tremon »

smilliken wrote: post #41
afterburner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let the people in your life casually get away with promoting fascism. Punish them socially.

That strategy may be cathartic, but it will have the opposite of the desired effect. If there's any hope of changing someone's mind, it has to start by respecting their opinion no matter how wrong you think it is. If you start a fight you'll get a fight.

I'm sorry, but some opinions are not worth respecting. People who e.g. excuse the genocide in Gaza, deny what happened in Tiananmen Square or who insist that the Jan6 insurrections were "just tourists" should not receive a participation trophy.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#95

Post by afterburner »

smilliken wrote: post #41
afterburner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let the people in your life casually get away with promoting fascism. Punish them socially.

That strategy may be cathartic, but it will have the opposite of the desired effect. If there's any hope of changing someone's mind, it has to start by respecting their opinion no matter how wrong you think it is. If you start a fight you'll get a fight.

This may eventually work after a long effort, but in the meantime, the person with the fascist thoughts will be deriving social support from you not having cut them off. "Haha, I love fascism, and Bill still likes me and hangs out with me, so I guess I'm good!"
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