Live data from Hacker News

The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

planetearthandbeyond.co

91–100 of 105 posts

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#91
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was always confused and intrigued what was going on behind the scenes when Tesla was so obviously and publicly rejected by the Biden administration in that manner. Musk was even then a polarising figure, but given Tesla was arguably more “American” than even the self-proclaimed traditional American car companies, it seemed a weird, self-defeating, perhaps emotional, position for the administration to take.

That 2021 event was very much not about EVs-in-general, but about supporting UAW as a union at a time when a lot of their jobs were about to be disrupted because Biden just signed an EO (14037) that pushed traditional automakers towards making more EVs (target being 40-50% by 2030, but it was non-binding). So, why were Ford, GM and Stellantis there but Tesla wasn't? Because Tesla was already making EVs only, because…

[deleted]

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#92
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were duped. Tesla‘s paint it black video is from 2016 and one the first obvious lies. People called Musk out on his BS 10 years ago, but he successfully managed to keep a "genius" imagine in the media up until COVID-19 hit. Media sentiment changed around 2020/2021 to adjust to reality of Musk being a massive fraudster.

Important point here: the discussion is about his character, but you’ve made it about his intellect. I don’t think anyone can doubt that Musk is super smart. I’ve heard silly things like - he doesn’t do anything, it’s all his employees or board or assistant - but reading the history that’s obviously false. It does seem some people can’t cope with the idea that someone is often an asshat is also brilliant. And I’m afr…

On the one hand he does some things that seem very smart, on the other he does many that are very stupid (cave divers ordeal). So it’s a bit more nuanced than that.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#93
post #76
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What objective evidence do we have that Musk is smart? Basically: he's extremely rich Working hard and being very good at negotiating compensation packages and picking the right companies/products to be involved with (and a bit of luck) are all sufficient for exorbitant wealth though. E.g. there are plenty of people just as smart as Bezos who didn't hitch their wagon to the "sell something easy on the web" idea at th…

What is a secular term for prosperity gospel?

Plutocracy?

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#94

>Back in 2016, Musk personally pushed for almost all vehicle functions, including the door handles, to be controlled by electric buttons or touchscreens. His own engineers and executives warned that this is a huge safety risk... They argued for traditional, fully mechanical door handles, but Musk vetoed them for purely aesthetic reasons. He even pushed for the mechanical override, meant to be used in such emergencies…

"Well before this tragedy, Defendant Tesla had received repeated notice that its vehicles were prone to Sudden Uncommanded Acceleration [SUA], explosive fires, whether triggered by a crash or occurring spontaneously, and that such fires were difficult and time-consuming to extinguish. Tesla also knew that its decision to prevent its AEB system from activating would allow otherwise preventable collisions to kill and maim people. Tesla knew that its reliance on electronic door systems created a serious risk of occupant entrapment after crashes. Owners, rescuers, and regulators had documented prior incidents where Tesla occupants survived crash forces but were unable to escape when power failed and fire ensued. Despite these warnings, Defendant Tesla continued to market and sell vehicles including the subject vehicle that predictably trapped survivors in foreseeable emergencies."

"The Dennises were traveling westbound on South 56th Street, toward the intersection with South Washington Street, in Tacoma, Washington, when their Tesla Model 3 suddenly and rapidly accelerated out of control, continuing to accelerate faster and faster for at least 5 seconds before crashing into a utility pole on the northwest corner of South 56th and South Washington streets shortly after 1:00 PM. 9. Video footage from a nearby business shows the Dennis Model 3 rapidly accelerating and swerving to avoid hitting other vehicles as it sped out of control. At no time did the Model 3s Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) system engage prior to it crashing into the utility pole.

Immediately upon impact the Model 3 burst into flames, in what was only the beginning of an extremely hot fire that immediately engulfed the Model 3 and would burn for many hours before responders from the fire department were able to extinguish it completely.

Several bystanders ran to the vehicle and attempted to assist Jeff and Wendy Dennis but the Model 3s door handles would not operate by design making it impossible for anyone to open the doors from the outside of the vehicle. Several good Samaritans even attempted to use a baseball bat to break the car windows to help the Dennisses out of the burning vehicle. However, the increasingly intense fire forced them to distance themselves from the rapidly growing fire. They could only watch helplessly from a distance as the severely injured Jeff and Wendy burned in the inferno. The Tesla as it struck the utility pole.

[photos]

Seconds after impact the Tesla exploded into flames."

https://ia801700.us.archive.org/25/items/gov.uscourts.wawd.3...

Italics are mine

HN commenters sometimes reply to stories about Tesla crashes by asserting that it was the driver's fault, Tesla batteries rarely catch fire, etc.

Perhaps this comment will draw some of those replies

Other cases mentioning "sudden uncommanded acceleration" include

Inkie Lee v. Tesla, Inc. (C.D. Cal. 2020)

Djemil v. Tesla Inc (W.D. Wash. 2021)

Thakrar v. Tesla, Inc. (N.D. Ill. 2022)

Leach v. Tesla, Inc. (N.D. Cal. 2023)

There are hundreds of wrongful death cases involving Tesla fires

Tesla fans are entitled to their opinions

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#95
post #86
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it odd to completely disavow someone because you don’t agree 100% with their politics. "politics": https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hund... https://www.cgdev.org/blog/update-lives-lost-usaid-cuts https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Those links are all political views. Beyond the veracity of those numbers, it is a political decision whether or not the US should be spending $150B on foreigners or Americans.

The manner in which that decision is executed is very much a reflection of moral character.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#96
post #58
post #8

I mostly agree, but I would have agreed with a similar article 10 years ago, and that would have been a fairly widely held opinion (e.g. Bill Gates was famously short Tesla). So I wouldn’t be so sure as this piece is in Tesla’s downfall, and the emotive language doesn’t help this look like an objective analysis. I also don’t like articles that take the industry consensus or expert opinion as a priori the correct opin…

What about the people that were killed because they couldn't figure out how to get out of the fucking car when it caught fire with them in the back?

They could have easily avoided the accident if they ponied up for FSD?

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#97

>Back in 2016, Musk personally pushed for almost all vehicle functions, including the door handles, to be controlled by electric buttons or touchscreens. His own engineers and executives warned that this is a huge safety risk... They argued for traditional, fully mechanical door handles, but Musk vetoed them for purely aesthetic reasons. He even pushed for the mechanical override, meant to be used in such emergencies…

Tesla was winning because they had insight and balls to make electric cars that actually looked and worked like normal fucking cars. Everyone else who was making EVs failed to resist the temptation to reinvent the definition of the car, throwing out a century of wisdom and natural selection of features of good car design, to the point that it seemed like nobody wanted to succeed. As soon as they forgot this, their do…

Tesla was winning because US government gave it half a billion dollars when it was struggling financially.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#98
post #33
post #5

I used to really like and admire Musk. You could say I was a fanboy. I am still asking myself what the fuck happened? Was he faking his true character all this time and managed to dupe me? Did he suffer some brain damage which changed him this drastically? Was it too much social media, was it covid-related, was he poisoned? Did too much money and power get to him? I would seriously like to know. By know, knowing abou…

I find it odd to completely disavow someone because you don’t agree 100% with their politics. I mean Werner Von Braun was a Nazi party member and knowingly used slave labor. Doesn’t make his rocketry advancements any less impressive. Or Charles Darwin’s views of superior races. Or Gandhi’s gray area views of pedophilia. I mean if you’re going to discounted every person with a view you find distasteful your list of pe…

I'm in the market for a car right now, and on paper, a Tesla makes the most sense. I won't be buying one. I'm happy to leave a little utility on the table just to avoid being associated in any way with Musk or his companies. Some might find that "odd", but I really don't care. I don't want to look down at my steering wheel and see the Tesla logo and have to justify to myself why it's OK that I gave my hard-earned money to someone who is actively working to destroy things I hold dear.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#99
post #27
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a very good comparison as Tesla has far fewer models than other carmakers.

The number of models doesn’t seem that relevant? If anything it would make Tesla’s numbers all the more impressive being a niche market EV.

If I want to buy a four-door Toyota sedan, I could buy a Prius, Corolla, Camry, Crown, or Mirai (not even counting Lexus or Century models), diluting each model's car sales, while overall vastly outselling Tesla. Ditto for cross-overs, SUVs, etc.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#100
post #86
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it odd to completely disavow someone because you don’t agree 100% with their politics. "politics": https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hund... https://www.cgdev.org/blog/update-lives-lost-usaid-cuts https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Those links are all political views. Beyond the veracity of those numbers, it is a political decision whether or not the US should be spending $150B on foreigners or Americans.

>Those links are all political views.

Yes, Harvard and The Lancet are just wildly political.

>Beyond the veracity of those numbers ...

In addition to being incompetent slouches.

Unfortunately, we can multiply any given figure by 0.01 and still get something that amounts to mass murder.

>... it is a political decision whether or not the US should be spending $150B on foreigners or Americans.

A proper political decision wouldn't have involved an abrupt rug pull on a bipartisan program that's been operating for the better part of a century.

There's this thing called continuity that's usually taken very seriously. Especially when hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives are hanging in the balance.

Post reply on HN