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Have Taken Up Farming

dylan.gr

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Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#91

Post by TrackerFF »

Also, the statement "From a spiritual perspective, there are only two career paths one can take: farmer or artisan. Anything else unavoidably involves doing evil or is essentially meaningless." is just so wrong that it's hard to take rest of the blogpost seriously.

Helping people for example is neither farming, nor artisanal, and is quite arguably the least evil and most selfless things one can do. The world needs caregivers, health workers, etc.

I'm not saying that to be mean, not at all. I just find it odd that for someone who has gone through such a spiritual journey/awakening, become a devout Christian even, to then declare all other careers as evil or meaningless. For every ex-white collar professional now LARPing as a micro-farmer, there are tenfold more people not receiving adequate care.

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#92

Post by seer_seer_seer »

TrackerFF wrote: post #91

Also, the statement "From a spiritual perspective, there are only two career paths one can take: farmer or artisan. Anything else unavoidably involves doing evil or is essentially meaningless." is just so wrong that it's hard to take rest of the blogpost seriously. Helping people for example is neither farming, nor artisanal, and is quite arguably the least evil and most selfless things one can do. The world needs ca…

Is farming not helping people to produce the food they need? Can you categorize jobs and the actions involved in them into the path of “farmer” (those who do standard work to produce for many) or “artisan” (those who do unique work to solve problems for few/many)?

Maybe it’s overreaching, but I like to see it as the writer saying unless your job provides a “good” to world and doesn’t just move bits from one database to another then its a good path.

Theres flaws with that approach too, but one I would give them benefit for.

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#93

Post by neuralkoi »

Dansvidania wrote: post #68
neuralkoi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for me it was the realization that I didn't really know why I was doing what I was doing. I wanted to change the world and make it better, and it felt good to pursue a career with a high salary and prestige, but after years of working in software I was not seeing my work actually make the world better. In fact it was making me feel sick, tired, and depressed. There was a short period of time in the 2000s whe…

What did you do about it? I am asking with sincere interest. I quit my SWE job more than a year ago and have been trying out a solo/indie thing for a few months. It has been hard, as it really forces me to face how much I really suck at things, but the motivation and the joy of learning are slowly coming back. I am wondering if indie webdev might become a thing, given how it is going in the game development space, ho…

After leaving my job at a FAANG, I did consulting for a large company for the first two years, working for 20 hours a week. I focused on my mental health which I'd self-neglected for years, by seeking therapy. I also went along the same route as the author, reconnecting spiritually and improving my diet by teaching myself how to cook. I was pretty much eating out every day before this.

At the same time, I began reducing my living costs. I sold my townhome and rented a room in a siblings house. I was able to bring my total core expenses down to around $25k-$30k/year.

Last year I started a nonprofit related to art (fieldsofcolor.org). I found a lot of joy and meaning in this endeavor. We recently received 501(c)(3) exemption, and I am planning to begin fundraising soon. I hope to someday make my living doing this. If not, my lifestyle is frugal enough I can manage via small consulting gigs here and there, or through a side job.

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#94

Post by p410n3 »

This fits them I would say. I was, at a time, chasing the dragon of software minimalism. Y'know, using lynx to browse the web, using suckless software and so on. I was using KISS Linux for a while and even tried to make a package for suckless slock (which iirc was accepted only after someone from the KISS team basically redid my build scripts). So I kinda see myself as a fan of dylan and a great influence on my formative years. (Edit: Formative years apparently means 0-8. I meant more like 16-20 - my bad )

What alwas struck me about dylan araps's software was that the minimalism didnt come from a lack of scope or complexity, but rather the approach to use as much of the tools that were "already there" (at least thats my way to interpret this - i might be wrong). The pure bash bible is describing how to do common tasks in pure bash. Tasks that usually were done with external tools like sed an awk etc. Then later came the pure sh bible, doing the same for POSIX sh and therefore shedding the dependency on bash-isms. This represented to me a chase to go "deeper".

And this part clearly seems to still be a driving force to this day. Farming and producing olive oil and wine by hand, no chemicals no bullshit - that sounds like dylan araps alright. Looking at the website you can also see this spirit everywhere. Go ahead and disable JS on https://wild.gr/wine - the image slider still works. It uses inputs and CSS transforms. Makes the markup ever so slightly more complicated, and future changes ever so slightly more involved (unless the code is generated). But lets not kid ourselves, how often are those kind of web elemts updated?

It is once again a project that excels in "using whats already there" and I personally really like that, and even though I am not rocking KISS linux and DWM anymore, this way of thinking is still with me to this day, and I believe it was taught to me by dylan araps. For that I am thankful!

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#95

Post by arethuza »

neuralkoi wrote: post #45
reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #6

I'm happy this person found a way to live that's meaningful to him, but I grew up as a farmer. You're coming back to something we've known a long time. If a god is what let's you get there, then good, let god keep you whole. But this is what the classics of stoicism (in the literal sense of both) have been telling us the whole time. We make our own meaning, and money isn't it. Go and grow things. Raise things. Build…

There's a story about Diocletian, the emperor who guided Rome through one of the most turbulent periods of its history, and later voluntarily abdicated and retired to his villa. When they begged him back to resolve some conflicts that had arisen he stated: "If you could see the cabbages I have planted here with my own hands, you surely would never have thought to request this."

Worth noting that Diocletian's retirement "villa" was actually a massive palace that still forms the heart of the city of Split in Croatia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletian%27s_Palace

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#96

Post by moron4hire »

mlrtime wrote: post #82
moron4hire wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He loves you and only he can truly love you. And if you don't love him first, you're the problem and you're going to end up in a place of eternal torment. Don't make him do this to you. He doesn't want to send you to hell. Oh wait, no, he's not the one sending you to hell, he's just not going to save you from hell. Yeah, that's it. Only his love can save you from yourself , see. It's a cult. If God were real, he'd be…

Sounds like you had a hard time with this, thankfully not everyone feels this way.

You're thankful that people's self-proclaimed most significant relationship is a) abusive, and b) with an imaginary character?

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#97

Post by exq »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #87
reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #6

I'm happy this person found a way to live that's meaningful to him, but I grew up as a farmer. You're coming back to something we've known a long time. If a god is what let's you get there, then good, let god keep you whole. But this is what the classics of stoicism (in the literal sense of both) have been telling us the whole time. We make our own meaning, and money isn't it. Go and grow things. Raise things. Build…

Every son of a farmer I ever met, _never_ want to go back to that crappy life of sleepless nights and hard toil. Every Web 3.0, leftist, tech bro I ever met, idolize the farmin lifestyle and see before them a hippy commune where free love is practiced. I never ever seen that, or heard about the leftist tech bro who actually did it.

I did it. I grow organic market/CSA produce and provide opportunities for special needs individuals on the farm. I go to bed dog-tired, I make a fraction of what I would in software dev these days, but every single day is rewarding, and my resting heart rate is in the high 40s/low 50s without going to the gym. No jira tickets, no sleepless nights slamming caffeine during a sprint, no out of touch execs forcing me to enshittify, no more eye drops for excessive screen usage. I grow delicious food, support a wholesome local community, and feel like I'm making a positive contribution to society instead of pumping out CRUD apps and gamified bullshit like I was in tech.

I agree that farming is definitely romanticized in some tech circles, and it is not for everyone. Of course my tech experience wasn't universal, but even if ZIRP free money comes back to tech, I'll still be here tending my field :)

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#98

Post by wolvesechoes »

NoBeardMarch wrote: post #44
wolvesechoes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A poet needs his pen and paper They doesn't. People did poetry for a long time.

A pedantic point. Even in a non-industrialized tribal society an oral poet needs a mud house, sandals and various tools. Someone needs to make those, probably the poet themselves.

> Someone needs to make those, probably the poet themselves.

In that case the whole labor division and economic incentives kinda disappear, right?

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#99

Post by modo_mario »

moron4hire wrote: post #73
ironbound wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think therapy was the first step here.. but some people have to find the "answer" even if it's the man in the sky saying he loves you very much xD

He loves you and only he can truly love you. And if you don't love him first, you're the problem and you're going to end up in a place of eternal torment. Don't make him do this to you. He doesn't want to send you to hell. Oh wait, no, he's not the one sending you to hell, he's just not going to save you from hell. Yeah, that's it. Only his love can save you from yourself , see. It's a cult. If God were real, he'd be…

I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheist and might be wrong but I believe that definition of hell isn't originally accepted, agreed upon, etc and even got some initial backlash at least up until people started iterating a bit much on dante's inferno. But organized religion is a bit of a memetic social phenomenon in many ways.

Rather than eternal torment (and heaven) it was originally a bit more vague and esotheric. Not a place of fire and demons and a place in the clouds with golden gates and all things nice which the catholic church declines to support regardless of what some church frescos depict.

Supposedly hell is/was more more like eternal absence of god. Eternal nothingness which supposedly is horrifying to some rather than eternally being with god or becoming one with him.

Re: Have Taken Up Farming

#100

Post by matusp »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #87
reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #6

I'm happy this person found a way to live that's meaningful to him, but I grew up as a farmer. You're coming back to something we've known a long time. If a god is what let's you get there, then good, let god keep you whole. But this is what the classics of stoicism (in the literal sense of both) have been telling us the whole time. We make our own meaning, and money isn't it. Go and grow things. Raise things. Build…

Every son of a farmer I ever met, _never_ want to go back to that crappy life of sleepless nights and hard toil. Every Web 3.0, leftist, tech bro I ever met, idolize the farmin lifestyle and see before them a hippy commune where free love is practiced. I never ever seen that, or heard about the leftist tech bro who actually did it.

Farming is "easy" when you have your tech savings and the option to plunge back into a high earning career when shit goes sideways (with wise sage aura, cause you took care of some goats). Farming is harder when your entire family depends on you working hard and you have very little capital.
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