Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

media.ccc.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 131 posts

Re: 39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

#91

Post by f1shy »

joe_mamba wrote: post #79
PinguTS wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like some HN posters simply read news and don't work in the industry and have actual insights on what's happening. Like Hydac moved some of there assembly from China to Germany. A company in the district nearby, just moved their whole production from Thailand back to here. Yes, production costs are higher. But there is not transportation costs. They don't have long lead times anymore and can react more better…

>that had problems employing people Who is "that" in this context? Can you be more specific. >Even as Continental has layoff Not just Conti, but all major automotive suppliers, semiconductor, embedded companies spread across Europe had mass layoffs. And not everyone was quickly absorbed. I have EE friends almost a year unemployed after the layoffs. They apply but only get rejections, not sure why. It's a bloodbath ri…

And is not only automotive. Other sectors are also suffering a lot. As you said, finding a new job is not very easy, even if you are ok with 1hs commute. As far as I know, all big companies are moving work outside the EU in a hurry.

Re: 39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

#92

Post by f1shy »

PinguTS wrote: post #78
joe_mamba wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like HN posters simply know the names of these companies because they're big, but don't actually work at those companies, otherwise they would know about the massive waves of layoffs and offshoring happening there lately.

I feel like some HN posters simply read news and don't work in the industry and have actual insights on what's happening. Like Hydac moved some of there assembly from China to Germany. A company in the district nearby, just moved their whole production from Thailand back to here. Yes, production costs are higher. But there is not transportation costs. They don't have long lead times anymore and can react more better…

> that had problems employing people.

If possible I would like to know what positions and how much they were offering.

I had offerings for a manager position, 15 people, responsibility for the 15, including in house training of them, and part responsibility in the 5 different projects these people were working on. They wanted somebody with background in HW development, 10 years experience in FPGA, experience of at least 5 years Linux driver development, cryptography, at least 5 years managing people.

Wait for it… they offered 80k/year. I don’t know… seems little bit low somebody with like 20 years experience.

Re: 39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

#93

Post by ipdashc »

bloggie wrote: post #49
Animats wrote: post #2

This is painful. They got a used solder mask holder, a Lumen pick and place machine, a bunch of old Siemens feeders, and a small automatic reflow oven. All these tools needed major work. Everything with firmware needed firmware mods. Everything else needed assembly or major cleaning. Everything needed adjustment. They had to 3D print their own solder paste squeegee. They're six months in and still trying to produce o…

Yes this makes CCC look bad. You can tell they were not serious because they used OpenPNP. From the video - "most importantly, it is open, hackable, and extensible." not mentioned: able to assemble electronics!

Given it's CCC, a hobbyist hacker con, OpenPNP and especially those three things you mentioned seem perfect, I'm not sure why you'd think it makes the con look bad. I've heard this talk mentioned repeatedly as one of the coolest ones there, and I certainly enjoyed it myself.

It's not an industry seminar on how to start a board house, it's two guys explaining how they automated the basics of production on a low budget and with space constraints, etc.

Re: 39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

#94

Post by m4rtink »

abielefeld wrote: post #55
crote wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you perhaps share those PCBA businesses with us? I tried quite hard to find them when I was still in the hardware world, and I never managed to find anything even remotely close to what China offers at less than 10x the price. I'd love to give it another shot for some hobby projects if the industry has indeed changed in the last few years!

I think the original commenter means companies that manufacture their own products but do not offer manufacturing services. You can't beat JLC because the model from JLC is that they lose money on all order less than 100 boards, so that they win order of 10 to 100k+ If you work in germany in engineering, you know a lot of mittelstand (SMEs) actually have some production machinery, as said, usually they have between 5…

>We shared our knowledge and results because we were curious about people's thoughts, and because if we fail and disapear we want this stuff to be online where other can find it.

For those who come after. ;-)

Re: 39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

#95

Post by abielefeld »

f1shy wrote: post #92
PinguTS wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like some HN posters simply read news and don't work in the industry and have actual insights on what's happening. Like Hydac moved some of there assembly from China to Germany. A company in the district nearby, just moved their whole production from Thailand back to here. Yes, production costs are higher. But there is not transportation costs. They don't have long lead times anymore and can react more better…

> that had problems employing people. If possible I would like to know what positions and how much they were offering. I had offerings for a manager position, 15 people, responsibility for the 15, including in house training of them, and part responsibility in the 5 different projects these people were working on. They wanted somebody with background in HW development, 10 years experience in FPGA, experience of at le…

That's the dirty secret of "the employment shortage".

Under pay, no one takes the job, so justify off-shoring.

The truth, having talked to employees at big firms, is that in the past, entire factories were off shored to save 10 cents from one single part in a product.

Today, most jobs are not just under-paid, they are undignified. Because any job can be gratifying in the right circumstances, even a job on a factory line, it just has to:

1. Pay a fair wage 2. Be designed to be gratifying

Companies dont even care about their customers anymore, we all know it's been more than 15 years since they've cared about their employees. That's how entshittification goes.

Re: 39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

#98

Post by f1shy »

abielefeld wrote: post #95
f1shy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that had problems employing people. If possible I would like to know what positions and how much they were offering. I had offerings for a manager position, 15 people, responsibility for the 15, including in house training of them, and part responsibility in the 5 different projects these people were working on. They wanted somebody with background in HW development, 10 years experience in FPGA, experience of at le…

That's the dirty secret of "the employment shortage". Under pay, no one takes the job, so justify off-shoring. The truth, having talked to employees at big firms, is that in the past, entire factories were off shored to save 10 cents from one single part in a product. Today, most jobs are not just under-paid, they are undignified. Because any job can be gratifying in the right circumstances, even a job on a factory l…

Exactly. And sometimes even very strange things happen. Currently I know of a company taking lots of positions from Germany to China, people in China are having more money in the pocket per year. The cost to the company are basically the same, but people is more motivated. Mind you, that people are not working crazy hs! Mostly 8 to 9 hs per day 5 days a week.

Re: 39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

#99

Post by abielefeld »

pikkoloassembly wrote: post #96

This is the approach we're taking at Pikkolo! (pikkoloassembly.com). Heavy focus on low-capex and machines we can easily scale and hack up specifically for high-mix/low-volume work.

Hey! Don't hesitate to get in touch with us, I read your website but there isnt so much information yet, but Alex and I would love to hear more :)

Re: 39c3: In-house electronics manufacturing from scratch: How hard can it be? [video]

#100

Post by megous »

lefra wrote: post #29
crote wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on your definition of "competitive", doesn't it? Being 3x as expensive as China but 0.1x as expensive as current small-scale EU manufacturing can be extremely competitive. Plenty of people looking for <1000 unit runs would be willing to pay extra for a "made in EU" label.

For that, there's a company named eurocircuits. Slightly more expensive than JLCPCB, but not 30x.

5pcs 2 layer default settings 80x100mm boards ($4 vs EUR 124) is pretty much 30x.
Post reply on HN