I don't get Framework. The business offerings of HP, Dell and Lenovo have a lot of replacable parts, and you can easily upgrade the RAM and SSD on many. These laptops already exist for decades. Framework hardly brings anything new into the mix.
I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
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Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#92I work international (somewhat of a digital nomad) so perhaps I’m an outlier in my usage. I have an M1 MacBook Pro that I bought new at release. I can’t replace the memory or storage. But so far I didn’t need to do that. In case it breaks, I walk to my nearby electronics store and purchase a new MacBook Pro. With Time Machine restore I am up an running within an hour. The M1 goes onto the pile of stuff to repair late…
> In case it breaks, I walk to my nearby electronics store and purchase a new MacBook Pro.
> Not working for a week waiting for Framework to send parts is not an option for me.
You are comparing apples and oranges here. Apple is internationally available because it is 40 years old and very successful. There's no reason why Framework cannot be that successful in 10 years time.
Furthermore, when Framework might become that successful, no need to buy a full new laptop, you can just buy the stuff that failed and move on. And if that does happen, then experience with Framework promises to be much better than experience with Macbook.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't even recall when I last needed USB-A, literally everything I have uses USB-C (or bluetooth for mouse and keyboard). What do you use it for?
USB-A is our second most popular Expansion Card after USB-C (and before HDMI), so certainly people are using it for something!
I got a couple of type-A cards for my AMD FW13 and generally keep one loaded in the laptop for connecting to random junk like flash drives, charging cables for all sorts of widgets (like my bike light or head lamp), etc. I get dramatically more use out of the type-C cards. And in the quite-rare cases where I really need all of the type-C ports, I'll just eject the type-A card and plug directly into the chassis without the interposer at all rather than carry an extra type-C with me.
That said, there have been a few things that have been a bit less than deluxe on my FW13:
- The touchpad mechanical click is just not that good. It is too sensitive to exact pressure and touch location and I find holding it down and dragging to be excessively difficult compared to all other touchpads I've ever used.
- The delete key seems to oxidize and needs a bunch of hard mashing to get it to become responsive. No, it's not sticky or dirty.
- The air intake on the bottom is highly prone to getting blocked, mostly by my legs.
- There's no BIOS option to turn down the brightness or disable altogether the charging status LEDs, and I find that when I travel and can't keep the laptop in a separate room that it's bright enough to interrupt sleep. I've taped over them, but the light leakage from other crevices is still sufficient to be at least mildly annoying. The translucent Ethernet adapter card also acts like a lightbulb.
- The laptop ramps its current consumption from type-C very quickly and seems like it overshoots its target a little bit, and so it is the only device I have that trips out the OCP on some of my bricks.
- There's no BIOS option to artificially limit the charging power, and so I often trip the OCP on aircraft if my battery is not fully charged before plugging in. I don't want to carry a secondary small brick just to use on planes.
- The LCD backlight uniformity and color quality are mediocre, but for my use case I just don't really care that much. For me, this is a portable technical productivity machine and not an art studio, so it doesn't matter.
- The LCD backlight intensity curve is pretty bad. I very-frequently want to have a brightness in-between the lowest and second-lowest settings. I would love to get more control at the bottom and less at the top. It feels like it's linear when it should be logarithmic.
- The speakers suck. So does the volume control. I very rarely go above 10% volume and frequently don't have sufficient control resolution at the bottom. Anything above about 14-16% volume causes something to distort and other stuff to rattle. Luckily I mostly don't consume media, so this is rarely a real problem. But it is truly atrocious.
All that said, I'm generally a pretty happy camper. I look forward to continued improvements from the company over the years.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#94I purchased the first generation of FW13 laptops and got burned. The CMOS/RTC battery drains if not plugged in so the laptop never keeps proper time. I don't think I've ever used a gadget in the last few decades that needs setting the correct date & time every time I turn it on. Granted, it was their first ever shipping product so I gave them a free pass but I thought they would atleast issue a recall or have a repai…
We have the full detail and a permanent fix for this issue here: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+...
We still provide the RTC substitute module free to any 11th Gen owner who requests it.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#95I purchased the first generation of FW13 laptops and got burned. The CMOS/RTC battery drains if not plugged in so the laptop never keeps proper time. I don't think I've ever used a gadget in the last few decades that needs setting the correct date & time every time I turn it on. Granted, it was their first ever shipping product so I gave them a free pass but I thought they would atleast issue a recall or have a repai…
We have the full detail and a permanent fix for this issue here: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+... We still provide the RTC substitute module free to any 11th Gen owner who requests it.
The permanent fix involves soldering stuff on the mainboard, which I don't have any prior experience. The RTC substitute module you mention is just the ML220 coin battery that will also eventually stop working.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry! So many questions. That electronics store won't sell RAM and SSD sticks? Which cities have stores that can sell Macbooks but not RAM & SSD? Like why wait for Amazon next day delivery if your SSD or RAM dies? Why would you wait for Framework to ship parts, unless it's the main board. Even then, wouldn't it be much cheaper to just plug in the SSD into an M.2 slot (of any generic new/old laptop) and rsync your wa…
Not just RAM and SSD. Displays can break. Power ports can break. USB-C ports can break. Keyboards can break. PCBs can break. And those take time to ship if you have a Dell, HP, Framework or even an Apple machine. I like being able to walk to a nearby store and grab a new MacBook Pro in case I quickly need a new machine to continue my work. My clients typically hire me for short periods and they need me to work at ful…
Your initial comment made it seem like, the repairable options are just so incovenient to the point where buying a new machine was the solution. So my questions were mainly around why that would be the case. But, it seems like your requirements are pretty stringent to the point nothing other than a Time Machine backup compatible machine would make sense.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
USB-A is our second most popular Expansion Card after USB-C (and before HDMI), so certainly people are using it for something!
I'm not trying to sit in my arm chair and act like I know better, but do you think it's possible people order those just in case?
Hi it's me from the past. I daily drive a VGA screen and a USB-A hub that connects my USB-A mouse and USB-A keyboard. My µSD-card reader uses USB-A. Ethernet adapter (for when I need a second NIC) is also USB-A but it came with an adapter to C so I have a choice there. All USB sticks I've ever seen are A, as well as all external hard drives. My charging cables are predominantly USB-A to micro, and nowadays I also need C for my phone. It's a bit annoying to need that extra C charging cable everywhere after we had already standardized on micro (except for Apple), but at least there's one standard now (xkcd.com/927) after the current devices die
Edit: forgot the printer. I connect it via USB-A on demand. /edit.
My laptop (bought this year) charges via a DC barrel jack, afaik because USB-C doesn't deliver enough power for peak usage. Buying a little HDMI-VGA converter was a lot cheaper than throwing a perfectly good screen away. My keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals also simply still work, seems silly to replace them just to get a C variant when 700-1300€ laptops have 1 or 2 C ports and always 2 A ports (I happen to be up-to-date on that, at least, because I helped someone select a new laptop ereyesterday)
I don't know what I'd need more than one C port for but I'm very happy that there is more than one A port on my laptop. Add in the standard set of 3.5mm jack, HDMI, ethernet, card reader, and charging, and you're already at more ports than even the new Framework 16 can physically fit in its frame, let alone nerd ports like serial or a second ethernet port. I considered buying a double-priced Framework earlier this year for the linux support and upgradeability (I really support their goal and would pay that premium if it were a suitable system) but this is one of the main reasons it just doesn't work for me: I'm actually a power user that regularly uses these connections and more
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#98I thought Framework was worth a gamble. I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longer got OS upgrades, and eventually apps stopped working. I like the idea of getting to easily throw new hardware at my machine to keep it going. (I also tired of Apple shoving bad experiences down my throat (TouchBar, Butterfly keyboards, thin glass screens that…
The problem is that the Framework starts so far behind in performance and battery efficiency of a cheaper Macbook that you aren’t saving money on perf upgrades. You really do have to buy it for the idea rather than the reality.
I don't love this comparison, because I have to use Linux, not Mac. It's not really optional for me, and Asahi simply isn't far enough along to fill the gap.
As a result, the question is more Framework vs. Dell or Lenovo, and that creates a much smaller gap in capability in the 13" form factor.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#99The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilo…
Being able to replace the keyboard is especially wonderful because laptops are usually "region-locked". I know people who use relatively unpopular layouts relative to where they live, and it makes it harder to buy and much harder to sell their Macs.
This curse extends to mechanical keyboards as well. There exists all sorts of fancy, beautiful and odd keycap sets... for Americans. Some times for German and French. If I get really lucky, I'll find some with a "Nordic" layout, which is an abomination that combines dk/se/no.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#100The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilo…
I was hoping that this is how it would work for System76 -- when I bought the laptop they sold replacement batteries. Five years later I find myself needing a battery and they are unavailable -- not on System76's website, not online, nowhere. My only option is to either replace the laptop or buy a used one and take the battery from that, hoping that it's good. For the last six months I've just been using a laptop as…
I use laptops since the 90‘. I only ever wanted to get a new battery. Everthing else never had anybsignificant problem, or started to have problems when the machine was already obsolete (5 to 10 years). While I like the Frameworks, I personally don’t see lots of advantages in terms of reparability, ovly eventually in making one with exactly what I need and no more. But then they are a little pricey.