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How I Left YouTube

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Re: How I Left YouTube

#91

Post by 677888uuu »

webdevver wrote: post #76
scuff3d wrote: post #45

This is why it's honestly not worth working that hard. Work hard enough to get noticed, spend the rest of the time making sure the right people know what you're doing. After a certain point it just doesn't matter anymore. The company has quarterlies to hit, and they aren't going to budge from whatever they have allowed for salary. And they're going to take the money they won't pay you and put it in an exec bonus pack…

i would like to push back a bit on this and say, it is worth working hard, but i would argue a lot of programmers get hindered by the illusion that programming is important, or even delivering results. unfortunately in software this is exacerbated by the very real world-wide impact that programming actually does have, but: it will always be subjugated by the most important job... the most important job, that has ever…

> quitting a mag7 like google is objectively a step down whichever way you slice it.

Great comment. I'm having some trouble correctly slicing the "step down" on the front page of HN where some ex-Googlers sold their biz for $20B. Can you help with your objective eye?

Re: How I Left YouTube

#92

Post by tyii888 »

qwe----3 wrote: post #51

I guess lying on your linkedin "senior swe" is also helpful for getting a staff engineer position?

Google submits your title and salary info to theworknumber, I would advise against this (and lying in general).

Re: How I Left YouTube

#93

Post by aeyes »

I have seen this from the manager side at these kinds of companies, explaining to your manager that you are quitting because your level does not match your work is a waste of energy. Their hands are usually tied.

Promotion decisions are made by committees which are 1-2 levels above your manager, your manager presents the candidates. They round up a pot of multiple teams which are discussed at once and there are usually hard quotas (like 5%) of promotions to give out to this pot of employees. These hard quotas make it impossible to "do the right thing" because even if a lot of people deserve the promotion, only x% can get it. The composition of the pot of people can easily cause the problem which is described in the blog post, for example if you have a high number of juniors or a high number of employees who joined at the same time or employees with incorrect levelling from the start. If 20%+ deserve a promotion then it simply turns into a game of luck.

As a manager you try as hard as possible to get these promotions but the system of these big companies is just too rigid. Its like a pit fight instead of objectively looking at output. I have seen a lot of people leave for the same reason but I haven't seen a single change to the system in 5+ years.

Next we could talk about layoff mechanics, its equally disturbing.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#94

Post by 65 »

johanvts wrote: post #4

> In the software engineering world, we exist on a ladder. We call this ”Leveling”. That bubble is not the world, I exist outside the ladder and I am legion.

I must say, life is a lot easier as a software engineer outside of Big Tech. It seems like a bit of a pressure cooker to me.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#95

Post by tyii888 »

cyberax wrote: post #33

> Do say: "I optimized a high-throughput distributed system to prioritize user retention metrics, reducing latency by 150ms through a custom caching layer." Ugh. Pain. I'm hiring, and I've been filtering out resumes that are heavy on these kinds of metrics. Because I literally get thousands of entries with these kinds of wording. Often with excessively precise numbers, like "by 23.5%". My problem is that it's hard to…

There's no such thing as a "hands-on leading developer" on a "large-scale refactor" at Google, it'd be like saying you were the hands-on leading mechanic on building the 787 dreamliner.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#96

Post by sakex »

Levels in big tech are just a way to keep you motivated. You'll work harder to get a promo.

In the end it doesn't matter, you'll make more money by either leaving or getting a retention offer.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#97

Post by zhach »

conqrr wrote: post #16

> In the software engineering world, we exist on a ladder. We call this ”Leveling”. Career is a made up game. There are no true levels or ladders in life that you have to chase. Nobody will care or remember what you did or what level you were given enough timespan. Take the bits that you want (money, skills etc) to live life, but don't get too caught up trying to win the game.

Very much so. Author here. I wanted to do so much more than the box they allocated me in. Once I knew they were not going to let me grow from my box, then I left. Not the level I was worried about, but it's a language most people can understand

Re: How I Left YouTube

#98

Post by zhach »

aeyes wrote: post #93

I have seen this from the manager side at these kinds of companies, explaining to your manager that you are quitting because your level does not match your work is a waste of energy. Their hands are usually tied. Promotion decisions are made by committees which are 1-2 levels above your manager, your manager presents the candidates. They round up a pot of multiple teams which are discussed at once and there are usual…

Author here. My manager and I discussed lengths about the capabilities they do, and it is just like this. It's not his fault at all. It's a game at the end of the day, and it's your choice whether or not you want to keep on playing

Re: How I Left YouTube

#99

Post by ghaff »

dylan604 wrote: post #79
mgaunard wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course, if you were CTO of a company of 10, you can't expect to be hired as CTO of Google.

This is why titles on biz cards are funny.

Most of my titles have been pretty made-up (with acquiescence of manager). Never had the formal levels seen at large tech companies. Last job description was written for me and didn't even make a lot of sense if you squinted to hard. Made a couple of iterations for business cards over time.

Couldn't have told you what the HR titles were in general.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#100

Post by zhach »

sixspeedengine wrote: post #35

> The results of that meeting? The same from the previous promotion decisions; “it’s unfortunately a no. You don’t have enough impact.” Promotion at Google, as in many places, is tough. Status is allocated partially on level, so it sucks to not see that growth. Sometimes lack of promotion can be not having the right opportunities. It's fair to leave a company for whatever reason. For any other L4->L5s, or anyone want…

Author here. I like statement. I think the biggest thing here is "not meeting this mark isn't a value statement"

I had a lote of doubt about my own ability because I never got promoted. Was I not doing enough, am I not making impact. But you should never measure yourself by this. I left for more opportunities and more impact. I actually only knew my own value after rounds of external interviewing

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