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Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

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Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#91

In general there is a lot of work on ultrasound stimulation now, some of it is scary in other ways: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-65080-9 which could imaginably lead to wireheading or something like Niven's "tasp".

There's also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46008332 Are these guys losers,clueless, or born psychopaths? I hope for another category :)

Well when I was younger I was into chemical yoga, and you know I lived this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#92
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the chances that breaking up a tumor this way seeds cancer elsewhere in the body? that's discussed in the article

I read it three time and can't see anything related.

they mention at the end that the destruction of tissue exposes proteins normal and abnormal to the immune system, with the abnormal ones no longer hidden by tumor structures. if you then search (kagi, google, etc) for this there are results where this worked fantastically.

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#93
post #90

We are more than a decade away from knowing if Histosonics technology will actually be a meaningful treatment modality. It definitely is 'cool' in that there is no incision. However, whenever you deliver ultrasound energy from outside of the body, accuracy goes down; you are also limited by anatomy in the path of the ultrasound (e.g. going through the rib cage with ultrasound is not trivial). Folks I have spoken to w…

May I ask: > Folks I have spoken to who have bought these units say they are only allowed to use them if the tumor is superficial Is this because of: - the efficiency is going down massivly (maybe into useless)

or

- using it "below superficial" might cause other/new problems?

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The keto diet is also very good for this because many (but not all) cancer cells can't metabolize ketones. However recent research from Columbia Medical School suggests that it can promote metastasis.

Edited for politeness: Cancer metabolism isn’t a 2-bit meme. Tumors adapt. If they couldn’t, they wouldn’t metastasize.

It's a good thing you edited for politeness because you seemed to be basing your understanding of what I said based on stuff you read on Reddit.

A number of studies show that, in humans, the keto diet (the medical keto diet[1] and not the meat heavy Internet version) causes metabolic stress in breast cancer cells and in several other types of cancer, due to their significantly increased metabolic needs. It's like the difference between a normal human and Michael Phelps during Olympic competition. The cancer cells can process ketones, but not efficiently enough to fuel their activity so they starve.

In humans this eventually results in the death or deactivation of the cancerous cells (deactivation being the primary way that tumors "adapt" to a starvation diet). There have been few, if any, reported cases of metastasis in the types of cancers studied in humans. This outcome is statistically significant enough that multiple cancer treatment centers recommend the medical keto diet to human patients as part of a treatment regime.

As mentioned, the recent study from 2024 shows that this type of metabolic stress can, in mice cause the cancerous cells to metastasize in a last-ditch attempt to survive. However, very little of the cancer research conducted on mice has applications to human cancers. For example, chemotherapy has also been shown to cause metastasis in mice, and a number of earlier studies attempting to replicate the keto research in humans shows that the keto diet in mice increases tumor growth, which is the opposite effect it has in humans.

[1] The medical keto diet is basically just fat and vitamins. No carbs, and minimal to no protein because protein can get converted into glucose by gluconeogenesis. It is not a diet anyone would want to be on longer than strictly necessary. One of my friends had stage 4 metastatic lung cancer, which she discovered during a company-sponsored mud run. Surgery was not an option and chemotherapy was not working. With less than 4 months to live, she went on the medical keto diet and the two-punch combo of keto and chemo put the cancer into remission for almost three years. (Note: She only maintained the diet for a few months after ending chemo treatment. Unfortunately not all of the cancer cells had died, some had merely deactivated. Four years after remission the cancer cells reactivated with a vengeance and she died the day after she started showing symptoms.)

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#95

What are the chances that breaking up a tumor this way seeds cancer elsewhere in the body? 2024 meta analysis of seeding I didn't see ultrasound in there: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39605885/ Here is a study on AEs specifically from this type of ultrasound: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... Quote: "Cavitation detaches cancer cells/emboli from the primary site and thereby releases th…

What are the chances that breaking up a tumor this way seeds cancer elsewhere in the body? Welp I put it to you like this - if you DON'T use this then you have a gorillion cancer cells among which very likely one genetically predisposed to adventure throughout the body as turbocancer. If you use this, or radiotherapy, or whatever, presumably there is just a lump of dead tissue where the cancer was, signifying at best…

> gorillion

i'd never heard of that counter before so i googled it:

> The word "gorillion" is often used by white supremacists and Holocaust deniers in the form of "six gorillion", which mocks the figure of six million Jews that died during the Holocaust.

may want to look at using different verbiage.

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HistoSonics has studies published with 50 patients. Their upcoming study with 5000 liver patients obviously will give more information, but we already have some. And with that said, these studies are more relevant than the top of thread linking to a review from 2011 looking at papers from 2005-2006 for ultrasound cavitation causing metastases.

...they also appear to have been acquired by an investment group this past year: https://www.fusfoundation.org/posts/transformational-milesto...

Bezos among them:

https://www.mddionline.com/business/jeff-bezos-others-comple...

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46008332 Are these guys losers,clueless, or born psychopaths? I hope for another category :)

Well when I was younger I was into chemical yoga, and you know I lived this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA

This to the other one that made the end credits of BtTF is as Sixto to Dylan :)

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the chances that breaking up a tumor this way seeds cancer elsewhere in the body? Welp I put it to you like this - if you DON'T use this then you have a gorillion cancer cells among which very likely one genetically predisposed to adventure throughout the body as turbocancer. If you use this, or radiotherapy, or whatever, presumably there is just a lump of dead tissue where the cancer was, signifying at best…

> gorillion i'd never heard of that counter before so i googled it: > The word "gorillion" is often used by white supremacists and Holocaust deniers in the form of "six gorillion", which mocks the figure of six million Jews that died during the Holocaust. may want to look at using different verbiage.

Most non-shitty people probably picked it up from Meme stock sub cultures and wallstreetbets

Of course, one should ask themselves why so much of that culture is fed from and feeds into outright hateful people like nazis and Eugenicists and vague wife haters, and conspiracy theorists who "aren't nazis" but sure seem to believe everything is the fault of the jews.

"Gorillion" as I saw it was about the "Ape" context of wallstreetbets discourse. The Ape framing is actually non-hateful, referencing the new Planet of the Apes movies where someone makes a dumb analogy to a bundle of sticks: "Ape together strong"

They are similarly fans of calling people and things retarded, but that was getting reddit itself to nag them. So they switched to "regarded", because they aren't very clever.

Other gems of this community include frequent references to making "wife changing money" and an insistence that after GME totally turns out to not have been a scam and they bring down the entire american economy through literal shenanigans, that they will all collectively be crowned king, and totally won't oppress anyone, but also they relish the expectation that they will be able to smugly say "I told you so" to all the people suffering in their new regime.

They also adore doing the kind of "theory crafting" that is usually done by the most crazy person you know trying to "prove" bill gates did 9/11 because of that wingdings thing from 20 years ago.

But culture leaks, so this person might have just picked it up somewhere.

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancers aren't perfectly optimized to metastasize, and metasteses (rather than, e.g., bulk pressure from the original tumor) are usually what kills you. It's perfectly possible that the procedure kills 90% or 99% of the cells in the original tumor but increases migration of the remaining cells such that the net effect reduces patient survival.

Don't cancer metastases have more to do with cancer mutations allowing the cancer cells to form new tumors? Some cancer types tend do not develop the ability to colonize new tumors while others do regularly.

It's quite a bit about that, but it doesn't detract from my point. Mechanical disturbance alone can spread cancer and increase mortality.

"The risk of tumor seeding after liver biopsy is 2.7%"

https://easl.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hepatocellular-Ca...

Tissue containment systems for uterine morcellation

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/up...

Re: Ultrasound Cancer Treatment: Sound Waves Fight Tumors

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46008332 Are these guys losers,clueless, or born psychopaths? I hope for another category :)

Well when I was younger I was into chemical yoga, and you know I lived this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeHlvXvG6vA
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