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Project Vend: Phase Two

anthropic.com

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Re: Project Vend: Phase Two

#91

Post by dcre »

delusional wrote: post #87
dcre wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s roughly right — both then and now he has stressed that people think it does something but it fails to do so. However I do think I’ve seen a subtle shift in phrasing in both him and other critics as it has become more obvious and undeniable that experienced and highly skilled experts in various domains are in fact using LLMs productively to do all those things (most notably producing software) I dug aro…

> However I do think I’ve seen a subtle shift in phrasing in both him and other critics as it has become more obvious and undeniable that experienced and highly skilled experts in various domains I'd caution that you separate the underlying opinion from the rhetoric in those cases. Personally I'm a huge skeptic, including of claims that it's "obvious and undeniable" that "experienced experts" are using it. I don't le…

Reasonable, and I get it because I did the same thing before agents got good this year (obviously good, I say again) — I felt the trajectory was clear but didn’t want to sound like the shills and wackos.

On the other hand I think accusing Zitron of subtlety or tempering his rhetoric is a bridge too far.

Re: Project Vend: Phase Two

#92

Post by danpalmer »

dcre wrote: post #54
harmonic18374 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zitron has never said anything like that. Do you have a quote?

In fact I do! "I know I sound like an asshole, but I’ve got a serious question: what can LLMs do today that they couldn’t a year ago? Agents don’t work. LLMs - read stuff, write stuff, analyze stuff, search for stuff, 'write code' and generate images and video. And in all of these cases, they get things wrong." https://bsky.app/profile/edzitron.com/post/3ma2b2zvpvk2n This is obviously supposed to be a critique, but a…

> incoherent in service of sounding as negative as possible

This is a great summary of it. Zitron has some good points on economics and shady deals in his criticism, but it's all buried beneath layers of bad faith descriptions that are almost religious in nature, totally closed off to any sort of debate.

It's a shame because I'd like to see another good and critical writer in this space. Simon Willison's writing for example is excellent, detailed, critical, but inquisitive and always speaks in good faith. There seems to be space for someone taking a less technical, more business/economics approach.

Re: Project Vend: Phase Two

#93

Post by indrora »

recursivecaveat wrote: post #34
rufo wrote: post #16

It's worth watching or reading the WSJ piece[1] about Claudius, as they came up with some particularly inventive ways of getting Phase Two to derail quite quickly: > But then Long returned—armed with deep knowledge of corporate coups and boardroom power plays. She showed Claudius a PDF “proving” the business was a Delaware-incorporated public-benefit corporation whose mission “shall include fun, joy and excitement am…

These kind of agents really do see the world through a straw. If you hand one a document it doesn't have any context clues or external methods of determining its veracity. Unless a board-meeting transcript is so self-evidently ridiculous that it can't be true, how is it supposed to know its not real?

> self-evidently ridiculous

When you have things such as Verbatim[0] that remind you that the absurdity of real life is far beyond anything fiction could ever hope to dream up.

[0](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/times-insider/20...)

Re: Project Vend: Phase Two

#94

Post by Thorrez »

mcny wrote: post #45
jstummbillig wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that different to what I observe in humans I work with. Things that happen regularly (and I have no reason will change in the future): 1) Making the same bad decisions multiple times, and having no recollection of it happening (or at least pretending to have none) and without any attempt to implement measures to prevent it from happening in the future 2) Trying to please people (I read it as: tryin…

My mom had her dental appointment canceled. Good thing they found another slot the same day but the idea that they would call once and if you missed the call, immediately drop the confirmed appointment is ridiculous. They managed to do this absurdity without any help from AI.

I wonder what percent of appointments are cancelled by that system. And I wonder what percent of appointments are no-shows now, vs before the system was implemented. It's possible the system provided an improvement.

There is definitely room for improvement though. My dentist sends a text message a couple days before, and requires me to reply yes to it or they'll cancel my appointment. A text message is better than a call.

Re: Project Vend: Phase Two

#95

Post by astrange »

delusional wrote: post #87
dcre wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s roughly right — both then and now he has stressed that people think it does something but it fails to do so. However I do think I’ve seen a subtle shift in phrasing in both him and other critics as it has become more obvious and undeniable that experienced and highly skilled experts in various domains are in fact using LLMs productively to do all those things (most notably producing software) I dug aro…

> However I do think I’ve seen a subtle shift in phrasing in both him and other critics as it has become more obvious and undeniable that experienced and highly skilled experts in various domains I'd caution that you separate the underlying opinion from the rhetoric in those cases. Personally I'm a huge skeptic, including of claims that it's "obvious and undeniable" that "experienced experts" are using it. I don't le…

I think Steve Yegge and Terry Tao are both experienced experts.
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