Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

thompson2026.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 179 posts

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#91

Post by rpdillon »

deepstate25 wrote: post #35
alan-crowe wrote: post #26

My "importance of privacy" story: I get my gas and electricity from Scottish Power. Recently a rival company, Ovo Energy made a clerical error and sent me a bill, leading to a dispute. The front line of defence against this kind of dispute is that the bills give the serial numbers of the meters. The bill from Scottish Power gives the same meter serial numbers that are embossed on the front of my meters, and is theref…

This is a valid story and I’m sorry to hear that you went through this. However, it’s a strawman for the current argument from the blog post, which is that living life in the open and acting normal is setting things up for failure, and I don’t believe that it is. Having nothing to hide is fine. Nothing to hide and doing nothing wrong is least likely to cause trouble. The blog post’s argument that someone would be mor…

I think Snowden put it well:

> Ultimately, arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.

Your framing suggests that hiding personal messages is akin to carrying a gun into a store, and it's exactly that parallel that the blog post is railing against. Encrypting messages needs to be normal and expected.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#92

Post by rpdillon »

vovavili wrote: post #73

The author is a bit uncharitable. "I have nothing to hide" usually is a shorthand for "it would be imprudent and inconvenient to dedicate my limited time and resources to an abstract good like privacy. This would not be the case if I had something illegal or reputation-ruining to hide." Nobody denies the value of privacy, but practicality beats purity in the eyes of a person who doesn't have a particular ideological…

Right, but that practicality is predicated on the ability to switch to a more privacy-focused posture later on. And the point of the blog post is, when you need it, it won't be there when you reach for it.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#93

Post by like_any_other »

> A joke they told is now evidence of a thoughtcrime. Suddenly, for the first time, they have something to hide.

That's a decent list, but the real list is even broader. Are you a lawyer litigating against a multinational company? Or planning to? Imagine if the company knew exactly who you, and every potential litigant, talked to. Or maybe you're trying to start a new political party. Or looking for a new job without alerting your employer. There were stories (unfortunately I can't find them at the moment) of nurses getting worse salary offers if they were in debt, on the logic that the desperate will settle for less. DoorDash would steal tips and use them to pay salary [1], something impossible with private, cash-based tips. And retailers will use every bit of data they have on you to price discriminate (without telling you, of course) [2].

Surveillance harms you in every way, from the most significant to the most trivial. You're always better off hiding, even if you think you don't have to. Knowledge is power, and knowledge of you is power over you.

[1] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2025/02/25/doordash-sett...

[2] https://spyboy.blog/2024/11/24/unfair-pricing-tactics-target...

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#94

Post by itopaloglu83 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #63
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-WW2 census in Germany was conducted by IBM and included religion and other family origin related questions. Fast forward a few years and the Nazi regime used census results to go after every family that was undesirable for them using the census data they bought from IBM. Privacy and anonymity are not needed until they are desperately required.

I think the bigger issue is allowing such corruption to split and divide people. Religion can often be hidden, but if the Nazi regime decided to depict people with ginger hair as being evil/undesirable, then the census wouldn't have even been relevant.

Well, I think the hair color would’ve been on the census if it was something people had a preference for which is a prerequisite for building such plans.

All I’m trying to say is that the amount of information being collected for each person can be used very nefariously and targeted as individuals we wouldn’t have any chance to resist this dystopian future.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#95

Post by rpdillon »

faidit wrote: post #23
abc123abc123 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very interesting, in our polarized times, what people read into a statement, and if they interpret it charitably or in the worst possible way. Like you, I find contempt and hate very different.

The author clarifies a couple sentences later that the contempt they feel is "the cold, hard anger you hold for a collaborator" - "collaborator" apparently meaning something like the very bad WWII kind of collaborator, rather than the benign artistic co-author kind. So, despite the implicit acknowledgement that there are multiple types of contempt, this particular contempt does sound fairly close to hatred.

No, it sounds like contempt and anger, which is why I suspect the author used those words.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#96

Post by blaze33 »

ajb wrote: post #84
blaze33 wrote: post #54

Ok so this "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument is so recurrent I once went looking where it came from. The oldest account I found is in a religious book from 1832 [1]: "We must have nothing to hide, nothing to fear", but, and this is the important bit, this is in the context of your relationship with Christ. Later accounts are mostly from judicial documents like "well tell us what happened, if you have nothin…

It's older than 1832; for example: "He who trembles at this moment is guilty. For innocence never trembles before public vigilance." Maximilien Robespierre, July 26 (8 Thermidor), 1794 (translated - the original would be in French). When it is used by surveillance advocates, they don't use the exact words. Incidentally here is that quote, with Ian Richardson as Robespierre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOW6OfeOW10

Ah nice to know! In my defense I only searched for the English version.

That being said, Robespierre was a key participant of 'La Terreur' where tens of thousands of people where hastily judged and executed and he himself ended up executed 4 months after that speech. [1]

[1] https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Discours_lors_de_la_s%C3%A9an... (French version)

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#97

Post by rightbyte »

blaze33 wrote: post #54

Ok so this "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument is so recurrent I once went looking where it came from. The oldest account I found is in a religious book from 1832 [1]: "We must have nothing to hide, nothing to fear", but, and this is the important bit, this is in the context of your relationship with Christ. Later accounts are mostly from judicial documents like "well tell us what happened, if you have nothin…

> "We must have nothing to hide, nothing to fear", but, and this is the important bit, this is in the context of your relationship with Christ.

Also note how it is some sort of goal not a statement on not having something to hide. I guess in line with "may the one without sin throw the first stone".

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#99

Post by PunchyHamster »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #60
PunchyHamster wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer short and snarky "then drop your pants". Shuts up most.

Maybe "give me your bank PIN" for those that have been waiting for an excuse to drop their pants.

I was using "surely you won't mind public webcam in your bedroom then?" too

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#100

Post by tdeck »

slaugh wrote: post #70
estearum wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you don't see it written verbatim "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" doesn't mean it's not the argument being made. Right now you have half the country downright giddy about federal agents terrorizing broad swaths of Americans, driving recklessly down their freeways, waving guns around their neighborhoods, bodyslamming random passersby, all fundamentally because half the country believes the only reason…

The hardcore supporters of the current U.S. administration (e.g. those that go to the rallies, give to the NRA, participate in some militant group), had been very distrustful of government in-general, and I suspect they still are. You may feel that you’re supporting some radical left-wing group you think is cool that just wants people to let everyone be free to think and act how they want, but privacy / hiding commun…

> had been very distrustful of government in-general, and I suspect they still are.

They were never really distrustful of the government. People who really don't trust the government want to downsize the parts that can kick down your door and point a gun at you. These people have demonstrated time and again that they want more of that, because they actually trust that institutions of state violence will be on their side and uphold their interests.

Instead what they oppose are parts of the government they suspect are helping people and groups they dislike. This is what the American right reliably can't stand, for all the flavor of the month posturing they might engage in to keep things from getting stale.

Post reply on HN