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Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

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Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#91

Post by catapart »

fsflover wrote: post #84
catapart wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to use a quote to show you that "no, it's not like what is described in the thread", but you included the salient bit in the second quote, yourself. It's not a gray area, and "opt-in" isn't something to be weasled-worded around. If the browser has the capability, I don't want it. I want to be able to add it with a plugin, and that's it . Plugins should have full control to whatever is necessary (same as a…

> It's not a gray area, and "opt-in" isn't something to be weasled-worded around How about "Translate" button?

What about it? If it's output is generated by the manipulation of tensors and weights, it doesn't belong in my browser. It's not there to because I need to browse, it's there because I want to read content that is not in a language that the content provider has supported for me. I could feed those network responses right into a separate, non-browser app and have it translate stuff for me, if I wanted. Why should I be required to download and ignore your translation feature, when I could just as easily not have it included in the first place?

And, if I'm being honest, "translation" is the only feature I would even consider splitting the builds for. At least in that feature I can see why a "default" version of the browser might benefit more people than not by including it. But that doesn't mean that a "clean" version shouldn't be provided. Build the core app, and then include as many plugins as you think "average users" will benefit from in the "default" version. I don't mind being the minority, I just don't think it's inappropriate to ask for only what I need instead of "all the bullshit you want to force me to have".

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#92

Post by glenstein »

wtallis wrote: post #86
glenstein wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The creator of VLC has publicly noted dollar amounts they could raise if they either sold or compromised VLC, but it came and went without controversy. OBS Studio, 7-Zip, Notepad++, and Nextcloud have all published offers they've received and declined, or quoted per-install payment figures. In fact, it's practically a rite of passage for open source projects to talk about the value of their work in terms of what they…

Please stop calling people deranged for expecting Mozilla to do the right thing without dissembling. Having your previous such comment flagged and killed should have been sufficient reminder to you that you're behaving inappropriately for this forum.

Take a look at Graham's hiearchy and see if you can move up the ladder from tone policing. Were any of my examples: VLC, 7-Zip, Nextcloud incorrect? Let me know and I'll thank you your good faith effort to be responsive to substance.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy...

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#93

Post by jamesgill »

HelloUsername wrote: post #50
jamesgill wrote: post #2

Why not make them disabled by default , with the option to turn them on?

> Why not make them disabled by default, with the option to turn them on? "All AI features will also be opt-in"

He said there would be both an "AI kill switch" but that it's also "opt-in". Taken together, his two statements seem a little...odd.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#94

Post by ahartmetz »

glenstein wrote: post #76
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> New CEO says he's not going to remove adblockers, people suspect him for planning to remove adblockers. New CEO says they've run the numbers and decided to not kill adblockers, leading to people asking why exactly they were running those numbers (if it was an actual ideological commitment, the numbers wouldn't matter). > Mozilla says they'll add a killswitch for all AI features (so that the tiny but vocal anti-AI m…

The creator of VLC has publicly noted dollar amounts they could raise if they either sold or compromised VLC, but it came and went without controversy. OBS Studio, 7-Zip, Notepad++, and Nextcloud have all published offers they've received and declined, or quoted per-install payment figures. In fact, it's practically a rite of passage for open source projects to talk about the value of their work in terms of what they…

There is a difference between "FYI, we're rejecting a ton of money for us, that's how serious we are about not selling out" and "We ran the numbers, and on balance, taking these 30% more money doesn't seem like the right thing to do because it would be against our stated mission statement".

The second one doesn't sound like real conviction.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#95

Post by dzikimarian »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #66
netsharc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Facebook did a study that making options opt-in means only a tiny tiny percentage of users will ever activate them. People never look around in settings. I suppose if - after you click away the popup that says "Thank you for loving Firefox"(1) - a popup shows that says "Hey, hey, look at me, look we have this new feature, it'll blow you away. Do you want to enable it?" would be obnoxious but satisfies the ide…

> making options opt-in means only a tiny tiny percentage of users will ever activate them Why exactly should I, a user, care about this? I don't want useless crap shoved in my face, period. I don't care that people might not turn on someone's pet feature if they don't enable it by default.

Because if this browser will have zero appeal to wider public it will die and you will have to pick between Chrome forks.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#96

Post by gigel82 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #90
gigel82 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to live in your world for a bit... I can't imagine any future where having AI in your browser is a net positive for any user. It sounds like an absolute dystopian privacy and security nightmare.

Why? Imagine you have an AI button. When you click it, the locally running LLM gets a copy of the web site in the context window, and you get to ask it a prompt, e.g. "summarize this". Imagine the browser asks you at some point, whether you want to hear about new features. The buttons offered to you are "FUCK OFF AND NEVER, EVER BOTHER ME AGAIN", "Please show me a summary once a month", "Show timely, non-modal notifi…

For any mildly useful AI feature, there are hundreds of entirely dangerous ones. Either way I don't want the browser to have any AI features integrated, just like I don't want the OS to have them.

Especially since we know very well that they won't be locally running LLMs, everyone's plan is to siphon your data to their "cloud hybrid AI" to feed into the surveillance models (for ad personalization, and for selling to scammers, law enforcement and anyone else).

I'd prefer to have entirely separate and completely controlled and fire-walled solutions for any useful LLM scenarios.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#97

Post by Barrin92 »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #26
yoavm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love threads about Mozilla. New CEO says he's not going to remove adblockers, people suspect him for planning to remove adblockers. Mozilla says they'll add a killswitch for all AI features (so that the tiny but vocal anti-AI minority will be happy), and people blame them for not having it as an enable-switch. Whatever they do, they simply cannot win. I'm personally starting to suspect the main issue with Mozilla i…

> New CEO says he's not going to remove adblockers, people suspect him for planning to remove adblockers. New CEO says they've run the numbers and decided to not kill adblockers, leading to people asking why exactly they were running those numbers (if it was an actual ideological commitment, the numbers wouldn't matter). > Mozilla says they'll add a killswitch for all AI features (so that the tiny but vocal anti-AI m…

>If you build a userbase out of power users

But they've never done this. There is a very vocal group of Firefox power users but the browser has always targeted a general audience, marginalization by Chrome over the years not withstanding.

If you have any ambition to regain some of that market share listening to the average vocal Hackernews or Reddit commenter, who is not the median user, even just among the current ~150 million users is not a good idea.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#98

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

joduplessis wrote: post #11

> We've been calling it the AI kill switch internally. I'm sure it'll ship with a less murderous name, but that's how seriously and absolutely we're taking this. Honestly, is anybody reading what's getting written anymore? If it gets taken seriously it would ship with an enable-AI button, not the other way round.

Make it a compile-time option

   ./configure --disable-ai

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#99

Post by som »

yoavm wrote: post #14
joduplessis wrote: post #11

> We've been calling it the AI kill switch internally. I'm sure it'll ship with a less murderous name, but that's how seriously and absolutely we're taking this. Honestly, is anybody reading what's getting written anymore? If it gets taken seriously it would ship with an enable-AI button, not the other way round.

I love threads about Mozilla. New CEO says he's not going to remove adblockers, people suspect him for planning to remove adblockers. Mozilla says they'll add a killswitch for all AI features (so that the tiny but vocal anti-AI minority will be happy), and people blame them for not having it as an enable-switch. Whatever they do, they simply cannot win. I'm personally starting to suspect the main issue with Mozilla i…

Yep no doubt FF users cut from a slightly different cloth than those who choose GAMS browsers.

But as an old-school Firefox user, with a slieu of mobile extensions installed and a healthy cynicism about our swan dive into the dark sea of AI ... I have no problem at all with the statements from Mozilla. Outsiders can argue all day about intent, it's the actions that count.

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