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Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

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Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#91

Post by dpoloncsak »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #79
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Valve sold the Steam Machine for any significant cost less than the Dell / HP / Lenovo equivalent, HNers would snap them up by the truckload to repurpose as home or work machines with guaranteed Linux compatibility.

I'm sure Valve would be ecstatic if they were snapped up by the truckload for home use, because home use and gaming use overlap significantly even if not perfectly. For business use, the Beelink equivalent is about $350, because the GPU in the Steam Machine is useless for business or AI use. The Steam Machine is going to be more than $350.

The comment you're replying to is in a discussion about the possibility that the Steam Machine will be sold at a loss, as they would be able to re-coup the funds in sales on Steam.

In this example, no, Valve would not be ecstatic if they were snapped up for things other than Steam use. Sony tried this with the playstation, and the military bought them out as cheap linux compute, costing Sony thousands

> relevant article about Sony https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomput...

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#92

Post by robhlt »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #76
ShowalkKama wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

becuase the one he linked is from this year, the one you linked is from 10 years ago

And yet, not much has changed in that decade, right? Well, other than the Steam Deck, which is a well-defined set of hardware for a specific purpose, and which is the main driver for Linux game compatibility... And that's great! But for a random owner of random hardware. the experience is, well... same as it ever was?

The experience on random hardware in 2025 is nowhere close to what is was in 2015. Have you tried it recently? In 2025 I can install pretty much any game from Steam on my Linux desktop with an nvidia gpu and it just works. The experience is identical to Windows.

The 2015 experience was nothing like this, you'd be lucky to get a game running crash-free after lots of manual setup and tweaking. Getting similar performance as Windows was just impossible.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#93

Post by bryanlarsen »

dpoloncsak wrote: post #91
bryanlarsen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Valve would be ecstatic if they were snapped up by the truckload for home use, because home use and gaming use overlap significantly even if not perfectly. For business use, the Beelink equivalent is about $350, because the GPU in the Steam Machine is useless for business or AI use. The Steam Machine is going to be more than $350.

The comment you're replying to is in a discussion about the possibility that the Steam Machine will be sold at a loss, as they would be able to re-coup the funds in sales on Steam. In this example, no, Valve would not be ecstatic if they were snapped up for things other than Steam use. Sony tried this with the playstation, and the military bought them out as cheap linux compute, costing Sony thousands > relevant arti…

The comment says "any significant cost less than the "

It's not talking about selling at a loss.

And that was a reply to my comment saying that nobody sells their consoles at a loss in 2025.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#94

Post by RunSet »

> Steam came in 2003, created for easy management of updates for their games over the Internet (what today would be called a “proprietary launcher”).

I call it that today and I also called it one in 2003, when it suddenly demanded to be installed and kept running to continue playing Half-Life (what today would be called "vendor lock-in").

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#95

Post by p1necone »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #76
ShowalkKama wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

becuase the one he linked is from this year, the one you linked is from 10 years ago

And yet, not much has changed in that decade, right? Well, other than the Steam Deck, which is a well-defined set of hardware for a specific purpose, and which is the main driver for Linux game compatibility... And that's great! But for a random owner of random hardware. the experience is, well... same as it ever was?

The difference from 2015 to 2025 is enormous.

Gaming on linux in 2015 was a giant pita and most recent games didn't work properly or didn't work at all through wine.

In 2025 I just buy games on steam blindly because I know they'll work, except for a handful of multiplayer titles that use unsupported kernel level anticheat.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#96

Post by AndrewDucker »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #9

It will be interesting to see if they can answer a question better now than with the original Steam Machines ten years ago: what problem do consumers have that Steam Machines solve? Their original answer was a resounding "nothing" - Steam Machines solved a problem for Valve (fear of an impending "Windows Store" being added by Microsoft that would steal the battlefield from Valve), but very little for the customer. I…

My Windows 10 box needs to be replaced before October (when patches end).

I want a new computer that just works, and plays my games. This looks like it will be designed to do exactly that.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#97

Post by Narishma »

a_shovel wrote: post #16
modeless wrote: post #4

Valve's hardware products will be successful but remain niche. And that's ok. They are unwilling to pursue business models that require locking down hardware in order to subsidize it with software purchases, and I love that about them. As a result their hardware will always be more expensive. They will not outcompete Meta in VR or Sony/MS/Nintendo in consoles because price is king for the mass market. Valve's hardwar…

Steam doesn't need to lock down the Steam Machine to subsidize it with store purchases. The casual user could theoretically install another OS, but that doesn't matter because they won't (because they're casual users), and the dedicated user buys most of their games on Steam anyways because it's the dominant distribution platform.

They do need to lock it down if they want to subside it with store purchases, otherwise it's too tempting for non-gaming uses where they don't get any money after the initial sale.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#98

Post by denimnerd42 »

RunSet wrote: post #94

> Steam came in 2003, created for easy management of updates for their games over the Internet (what today would be called a “proprietary launcher”). I call it that today and I also called it one in 2003, when it suddenly demanded to be installed and kept running to continue playing Half-Life (what today would be called "vendor lock-in").

people on the internet were pissed about steam in 2003

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#99

Post by cyberax »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #24
mrec wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They will not outcompete Sony/MS/Nintendo in consoles because price is king for the mass market I don't follow the console market at all, but don't its players subsidize their hardware by keeping software (game) costs high? I didn't think they had anything like Steam's level of regular discounted sales. "Price is king" can cut both ways.

Likewise, the PS5 has absolutely dominated the Xbox's current generation in terms of sales in large part due to exclusives. Xbox Series S is far cheaper than a PS5, mind you. What platform has more exclusives than PC?

There is a current generation of XBox?!?

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#100

Post by omnimus »

ThrowawayB7 wrote: post #75
ZeroConcerns wrote: post #5

Well, Valve got seriously concerned about the Windows Store, like, a decade ago, since that could have reduced the stranglehold of Steam on the gaming marketplace. Turns out that the usual Microsoft incompetence-and-ADHD have kind-of eliminated that threat all by itself. Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform. Still: are consumers better off today than…

> " Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform. " Valve is the one putting in the effort and paying for it at their own expense. If they ever lose interest in paying for it, like GabeN retiring and Ebenezer Scrooge replacing him, then it's game over for Linux gaming (literally).

That would make very little sense business wise. Steam “consoles” are not big break just for linux but also for valve. What could easily happen though is locking down their consoles once they get profitable.
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