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Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

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Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#91

Post by pyre »

camiller wrote: post #31
jakubp wrote: post #6

I'm confused. Is this article saying that in the US it's illegal for a maker of the product to sell the product to whomever he wants? How is that helping anyone but the dealerships?

Say for example there are five Chevy dealerships in the greater Omaha area. If General Motors were allowed to own one itself it could give itself discounts internally such that it could undersell the other dealers and put them out of business. Once the competition was gone it could then raise prices harming consumers. Competition is good for consumers and the laws in question are aimed at protecting consumers. Yes I…

So there needs to be competition between sellers of a single brand, just because some people are so brand-loyal that they would refuse to switch brands to avoid being 'taken to the cleaners?' I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment.

You're also ignoring that the brand (e.g. Chevy) is selling to all of the dealerships. If they raise the price, the dealerships all have to pay if they want the car/truck/etc. Do the dealerships really have that much bargaining power?

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#92

Post by icebraining »

pi18n wrote: post #40
jakubp wrote: post #6

I'm confused. Is this article saying that in the US it's illegal for a maker of the product to sell the product to whomever he wants? How is that helping anyone but the dealerships?

I heard there's one state where you need a license to do interior design, how is that for bullshit legislation?

Also, braid hair in Utah: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/22/155596305/episode-...

(I think this was reversed since the story)

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#93

Post by geebee »

"Whine" is an alert word for me. Any time someone tries to present his opponent's argument through an unflattering characterization "whining, stomping his feet, throwing a tantrum" rather than by presenting a well reasoned argument, I immediately become more guarded and skeptical about the argument I'm about to hear. Have you ever presented what you felt was a very fair and reasoned argument, only to have someone disregard it all and tell you you're whining?

I know, I know, you just can't expect too much from journalistic headlines. "Auto dealers claim that tesla stores are illegal" doesn't have the same punch. And based on what I've read here, I am on tesla's side (though it's pretty hard to find anyone on the side of the auto dealerships).

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#94

Post by noarchy »

w1ntermute wrote: post #68
icebraining wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but aren't other countries even less libertarian?

According to two major economic freedom indices[0][1], the US is ranked 18th and 10th, respectively, worldwide. So no, I wouldn't say that the US is the "most libertarian country in the world". 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Canadian here. My country is listed higher than the US in both lists, but I have to laugh out loud at that. Canada is swimming in protectionist laws that choke off competition in some vital sectors, like telecom. Even Amazon got crap for wanting to open warehouses here, because it was considered too "threatening" (as in, people might shop there) to the protected, Canadian companies. Canadians routinely cross the border to shop in US towns that are close to the border, because we don't get gouged as much there, and the choices are far better than we get here.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#96

Post by sageikosa »

jetti wrote: post #23
talmand wrote: post #11

"Oh no! It's a new business model that is different than our old business model! We must use legal means to stop it immediately because we don't know yet if we can compete with it!" Plus, customers may like it better since the current method is usually despised...

There is no competition to be had. The dealerships aren't scared of competition from Tesla, especially since the price of a Tesla Model S is out of range for the majority of car buyers. What they are scared of is that Tesla sets a precedence for other manufacturers to follow suit which would then put a lot of people out of work.

Putting people out of work == freeing up labor from inefficiencies. They can be productive or inefficient elsewhere, at their own expense, rather than mine.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#97

Post by bmelton »

chucknelson wrote: post #64
randomdata wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of enjoyed buying my last vehicle. For some reason, the salesman had it in his mind that I could not afford the one I was looking at. I was the one trying to talk him into adding options, while he was trying to take them away to keep the costs lower. Once I finally talked him into the one I wanted, he, without asking, starts filling out the loan application. I'm like "umm, I'm going to be paying for it in cash…

I've always heard that you get a better price if you tell them you're paying in cash...is this just bad info?

Seconding Tyler's point, but with a slight amendment.

Paying cash is generally[] not better than financing through the dealership, but is much better than bringing your own financing.

[] There are a couple more factors that I haven't seen mentioned, specifically that paying cash is generally a lot faster. For the dealership, there isn't necessarily a benefit, but for the salesperson, a quick sale means they might get to slot an 'extra' sale in for that day, so it's worth it to them to play around with their commission on what they might consider a 'gimme'. If paying cash, it is best to do so on busy days so that there are other 'fish' for the salesperson to go to next. If you're the only person there, there's no real sense in urgency.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#98

Post by kamaal »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #21
talmand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be a rather unpleasant experience, plus it makes me feel bad to immediately hate the person before I get to know his/her style of selling. I know it's unfair but when that salesperson walks up I'm immediately "just go away and leave me alone". Plus the sad fact is that the salesperson is the middleman of the manager, who is the middleman of the financier, who is the middleman of the dealership. There are proba…

> Why can't cars be sold just like any other product? Because then they run the risk of getting Amazon'd or Wal-Mart'd.

>>Because then they run the risk of getting Amazon'd or Wal-Mart'd.

Your post sounds like Amazon and Wall-Mart are doing some thing wrong in the way they are running things.

And what is the risk you are talking about. Do you mean to imply Amazon and Wall-Mart are evil and have some caused damage to their consumers/customers?

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#99

Post by talmand »

jrockway wrote: post #50
talmand wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a risk? What's wrong with ordering a car from Amazon? Or do you mean it's a risk from the dealers' perspective? Because I get that and personally don't care.

Because I get that and personally don't care. But you donate less money to political candidates than the auto dealers do, and so here we are.

Thus, why I don't care if they fail and are wiped out.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#100

Post by mbreese »

cs702 wrote: post #3

Anyone who's ever bought a car knows firsthand how unpleasant it is to deal with traditional car dealers. The price of every vehicle is fully negotiable but the negotiating room is opaque.[1] Key car features and options are bundled in arbitrary packages and priced in ways that make pricing even more opaque. Car salesmen (they're typically men) almost always have a fake smile on their face and come across as smooth-t…

When I bought my last car, I actually had it both ways: slimy car salesman and nice guy who made it all go smoothly.

After looking around, I was ultimately interested in 2 different cars from different dealers. For car one, the salesman kept hedging of a price. The price that I knew I could get according to my research wasn't even close to the price he quoted. He was actually quite pleasant to deal with, but I just had a feeling that the dealership wanted to keep prices high.

At a different dealer for the same car, the salesman wouldn't even give me a price for the car until they saw my trade-in. I walked out of that place immediately.

For the car that I ultimately bought, I walked into the sales office with my wife and two kids. He immediately setup a test drive (including our car seats). When we got back, we quickly went through the options we'd need and the price of the car. It was all very transparent, and with the manufacturer incentives (end of the model year) it was a pretty reasonable price (well below invoice), and I was very happy with it. I actually liked the first car better, but was very happy with the one I ended up with.

Because of how that guy treated us, I'd go back to him to by multiple cars in the future. So really, it goes back to the balance between maximizing short-term profits over long term profits. The sleazier the dealerships will try to maximize short term sales at the expense of long term sales. The better ones try to build customer relationships so that they aren't just selling you one car. They are trying to also sell you your next car.

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