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Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

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Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#91

Post by pjc50 »

gradus_ad wrote: post #82
mrweasel wrote: post #4

Largely the US isn't losing control, it's giving it up willingly. For what reason, no one knows yet.

The "world", implicit in your comment, is the liberal world order. This world order worked for America (ie Americans) until it became apparent that it did not, at least in a political and cultural sense (in a material sense it is of course still working perhaps even too well). The greatest champion of this world order, the EU bureaucratic class, views Americans' play for their sovereignty with bewilderment and casts…

Hegemonic liberalism is way, way, better than hegemonic illiberalism.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#93

Post by 5upplied_demand »

fidotron wrote: post #75
pjc50 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> want the US to pay for and be responsible for policing the world Not really convinced that it's that way round, that Europe actually wants much of this "policing" to be done at all rather than being dragged into it. Until Ukraine, which is the exact bit of world policing that Republicans no longer recognize as crime.

You're doing all of it right there. You, a European, want to tell the US public how their resources are to be used, and when they don't agree with you then you act morally superior about it.

> You, a European, want to tell the US public how their resources are to be used, and when they don't agree with you then you act morally superior about it.

As an American, I can confidently say that we do the exact same thing from the other perspective.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#94

Post by pjc50 »

aa-jv wrote: post #87
mrweasel wrote: post #4

Largely the US isn't losing control, it's giving it up willingly. For what reason, no one knows yet.

Israel is rising to fill the void, and there are many indications that this is by design, all along...

I think that's overestimating their influence and, crucially, their size. The country barely has a navy and is dependent on oil imports.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#95

Post by tmountain »

watwut wrote: post #73
tmountain wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have concerns about the authoritarian tendencies of the current admin, but I think the word "fascism" should be avoided in these types of discussions, as it's such a loaded term that it's hard to know exactly what's implied. The main risks I see are the erosion of democratic norms (weakening of core institutions) and a reduced access to due process, particularly for non-citizens. You see this in ICE deportations to…

How are they NOT fascists? They match pretty much any definition of that word. It is easy to know what is implied. Issue is emotional - people do not want to admit that yes, these are fascists.

Fascism is historically loaded and collapses debate. It's a binary label. Speaking in absolutes makes it harder to have productive conversations.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#96

Post by pfdietz »

danmaz74 wrote: post #76
pfdietz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that? Are we taking stuff at the point of a gun? The benefits would seem to flow to those countries that would have been swallowed up without Pax Americana.

> How is that? Are we taking stuff at the point of a gun? No, but the USA is getting a lot of stuff in exchange for $$ which it can print for basically free. Consumers in the USA have benefitted a lot from this, which partly compensated the fact that more and more of the pie is going to the richest instead of the average American.

Dollar holdings outside the US come to about $1 trillion. What you are talking about there are holdings of debt. Yes, US prosperity has been propped up by borrowing increasing amounts of money. This is not sustainable.

One can view Trump's tariff actions as preparatory for US debt default. This would crash the dollar and make imports much more expensive.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#97

Post by lotsofpulp »

Hendrikto wrote: post #41
lotsofpulp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those who know where this will lead are unwilling to speak up and the rest follow. They did speak up. And they lost the popular vote. Democracy is only as good as its voters. A country is only as good as its people. Replace good with productive/sane/not corrupt, etc.

If you do not get votes, it’s not the voters who failed, it is you. If politicians got that through their heads, and started trying to convince voters on their own merit, instead of simply trash-talking their opponents and telling people they voted “wrong”, they would start to get things done again, and we could actually solve real problems.

When voters vote for the person who baseless attacked an election (counts as treason in my book), and campaigned on aiding and abetting those who perpetrated treason against the country, it is the voters (and non voters) who failed.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#98

Post by engineerhead »

Framing this as the US “losing control” misses one of the points i.e what’s actually happening in energy sector. Oil worked as a lever of power precisely because it was scarce, centralised, and geopolitically choke-pointed. Renewables will flip that model. Sun and wind don’t care about borders, navies, or petrodollars.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#99

Post by gradus_ad »

pjc50 wrote: post #91
gradus_ad wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "world", implicit in your comment, is the liberal world order. This world order worked for America (ie Americans) until it became apparent that it did not, at least in a political and cultural sense (in a material sense it is of course still working perhaps even too well). The greatest champion of this world order, the EU bureaucratic class, views Americans' play for their sovereignty with bewilderment and casts…

Hegemonic liberalism is way, way, better than hegemonic illiberalism.

Hegemonic idealism is dangerous either way. We can pick and choose what works best.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#100

Post by lotsofpulp »

tmountain wrote: post #70
lotsofpulp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those who know where this will lead are unwilling to speak up and the rest follow. They did speak up. And they lost the popular vote. Democracy is only as good as its voters. A country is only as good as its people. Replace good with productive/sane/not corrupt, etc.

Propaganda is a hell of a drug. Many people's views are shaped by algorithms and established without any grounding in actual facts. The last election was largely decided based on affordability with a healthy dose of nostalgia for an economy that no longer exists. The democrats made a huge mistake running Harris without a real primary. Biden should have stepped down long before the election, yadda yadda yadda.

> Many people's views are shaped by algorithms and established without any grounding in actual facts

The facts are there, easily accessible for people to read or see. That they choose to ignore them is evidence of the problem with democracy. Whatever mistakes were made by the party that lost, their candidate was not the one with a (comparatively) long track record of fraud, treason, and overall lack of decorum.

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