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Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

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Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#91
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want parents to parent? God speed and good luck

No, I think what they want is not to have the rest of us have to jump through hoops (and sacrifice privacy) to achieve the same thing. Some of us don't have kids (or live in a household with any), so passing a law that potentially limits our internet access to solve a "problem" that already is dubious is ridiculous.

I couldn't agree more

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#92

I'm never verifying my ID to access anything on the internet. I'll just stop using it.

That's kind of the point of all this. They force websites to enact the verification because they have leverage over businesses that they don't have over citizens, and then they expect that the citizens will hate it so much that they don't go to the "bad" sites at all. "Thank you for your cooperation!" ETA: (accidental submit; sorry) I'm in the same boat! Not entering my ID information into any website, much less ones…

The internet as well as Facebook and most AI all used to be DARPA/CIA/InQTel projects so this isn't surprising

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. My kids are young right now, but I'm wondering if we can just have a shared family room computer like in the 90s. (school-based laptops might thwart this, but maybe by the time they're school-aged people will realize that constantly putting kids in front a screen is a bad thing to do?)

Yep, I bought a separate all-in-one computer that is in the living room, in full view of everyone else, so we can keep an eye on what is going on when they are using it. We also have pi-hole running that blocks a lot of things, and can turn on and off certain domains (so they can play roblox etc for a short while, then its blocked again) and their devices are pretty locked down

Just a heads up:

All four of my daughters prohibit my 7 grandchildren from going anywhere near roblox. My grandchildren are currently ages 2-11 but my daughters are so outraged by what happens there that they say their children will never be allowed on roblox until they move out of the house. Apparently it is extremely predatory, lots of bullying, and highly sexualized - and while children are the site's target audience, the site provides no effective oversight.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the main purpose of these regulations isn't protecting the kids. It's surveillance control. An easy way to better kill online anonymity.

Yep. Do it long enough and there won't be a single plebeian who has the slightest expectation of not being under surveillance.

For several years now, I have lived my life under the presumption that whatever I say on the telephone, email, or text has been downloaded and preserved somewhere.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#95

In my opinion, access to internet should always be behind a device controlled by an adult. And it should be this adult's responsibility to set appropriate restrictions for minors.

Define controlled and define appropriate in a fashion that almost everyone can agree on which is in line with the constitution and enforceable. You can't.

I think the parent should decide what the level of control is and what is appropriate for their child. I don't think we need to set up laws for everyone in the world.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#96
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the improved version of age verification is to ask the yes/no question to a government third party based on a signed payload that your local device offers the service. The government already has your identifying data, they only need to certify on behalf of which person the question is asked.

So then you're just back to the even more basic problem of "is the person using this device the same person that the payload was signed on behalf of?"

Yep. But in my mind that's being mitigated by the real measure for identity proof, which is some type of electronic ids.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#97
post #60
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why we don't just make a law that parents must set parental controls on their kids' devices. We do this for most other things.

I'm really glad you're not in charge of making laws. The one thing you can do as a parent is override most age restrictions. You can give your child alcohol, you can take them to R rated movies, you can let them watch NC-17 movies at home, you can buy them M video games, you can just straight up buy them porn. But then parents have a legal requirement to restrict their child's internet access to whatever the governme…

I mean there's a pretty simple comparison here - it's illegal to not send your children to school. Why do we send children to school? So they are educated and developed into functional young adult members of society. You could make the argument that access for kids to the Internet, which has all of the world's information and connectivity, should be regulated in a similar fashion.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#98
post #63
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why we don't just make a law that parents must set parental controls on their kids' devices. We do this for most other things.

how about we start with a law that requires tech companies to provide useful parental controls? Can we please stop blaming parents??

The iOS controls at least are pretty robust.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#99
post #97
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really glad you're not in charge of making laws. The one thing you can do as a parent is override most age restrictions. You can give your child alcohol, you can take them to R rated movies, you can let them watch NC-17 movies at home, you can buy them M video games, you can just straight up buy them porn. But then parents have a legal requirement to restrict their child's internet access to whatever the governme…

I mean there's a pretty simple comparison here - it's illegal to not send your children to school. Why do we send children to school? So they are educated and developed into functional young adult members of society. You could make the argument that access for kids to the Internet, which has all of the world's information and connectivity, should be regulated in a similar fashion.

As a parent, I was shocked how little that's actually true, at least in some US states. Home-schooling can mean sending a copy of your curriculum to your school district and you're good to go.

Re: Why isn't online age verification just like showing your ID in person?

#100
post #84
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There are ways to prove ownership of one of several hundred million tokens. If you give out this many tokens, the odds that some will be stolen or sold must be fairly close to 1.

Chat GPT would be happy to explain "Rate-limited anonymous credentials" to you. Just because you can't think of something doesn't mean brilliant mathematicians can't.

This has no bearing on my comment
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