Living in a Van • Hacker News Board

Re: Living in a Van

#91

Post by damoncali » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 9:25 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #15

This seems like a romantically bohemian way to approximate a pampered middle class kid's idea of how poor people live. If you want to save money, you can try what they actually do, which is move to a less desirable neighborhood and spend one third what you do on rent for an apartment. You live in a crazy expensive neck of the woods? Nice to meet you; I live in Japan, cry me a river. There's old folks on social securi…

I think you read too much into it. He's just saying that "if you think living in a van by yourself would be cool for a while, this is what you can expect." I read nothing more than philosophically slanted curiosity regarding a life that most would rationally choose to avoid (including people without much money).

Re: Living in a Van

#92

Post by sadga » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 9:25 PM UTC

markerdmann wrote: post #11

This reminds of a good friend. He got a job making six figures at Google straight out of college, and then lived in his van--in the Google parking lot--while saving every penny he earned. He took showers on campus and only ate free Google food. After a few years, he went into a mini-retirement and devoted his time to traveling around the world and volunteering.

FWIW, he could have rented an apartment and showered at home, and the cost would have been to delay retirement by maybe 10% of his tenure.

Re: Living in a Van

#93

Post by thirdtruck » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 9:28 PM UTC

kqr2 wrote: post #17

My favorite is this RV built by 3 Japanese students: http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/tiny-tr... More details: http://www1.ttcn.ne.jp/~gyo/English/index.htm

I could see a whole market for those.

Re: Living in a Van

#94

Post by Tichy » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 9:29 PM UTC

We spent our holidays as kids in such a VW and it was fantastic. That article made me miss those days. The holidays where always just a couple of weeks, though, so not like living in a van for good.

Re: Living in a Van

#95

Post by larrys » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 9:34 PM UTC

timofei7 wrote: post #82

larrys wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"is class disdain because I'm too well off to consider it or class disdain because when I wasn't well off we had too much pride to ever stoop to anything like that." Normally when you read stories about these outliers in life there is always a story behind it. I remember the case of the guy on the street corner who was discovered as having singing talent, made it to network news shows, was given some sort of leg up o…

So many negative reactions, I'm surprised. But then I've been surprised by how narrow a band "normalcy" really is before. I lived in a van for a summer. I have a story, but I don't think it involves mental illness or laziness or wasting my life. I was working fulltime as a sysadmin at an Ivey League school and taking classes fulltime there at the same time. Yes, that meant I slept very little and had no "free time",…

"What I learned was that society does not take kindly to seemingly slight deviations from normal."

That's because it isn't efficient for society and people to not jump to conclusions. Nobody is going to take the time to see that your situation is really different then the creep that is living in a van parked outside a school for a different reason.

We hear plenty of stories of how Bill Gates and Jobs didn't shower and of course we know that they ended up fine. But we don't have any data to compare on people that followed the same strategy and didn't end up in a good place because society jumped to it's natural conclusions about people who eschew all social graces.

Re: Living in a Van

#96

Post by mturmon » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 9:40 PM UTC

tgrass wrote: post #21

patio11 wrote: post #15

This seems like a romantically bohemian way to approximate a pampered middle class kid's idea of how poor people live. If you want to save money, you can try what they actually do, which is move to a less desirable neighborhood and spend one third what you do on rent for an apartment. You live in a crazy expensive neck of the woods? Nice to meet you; I live in Japan, cry me a river. There's old folks on social securi…

Patrick, he does write "it’s worth noting that we are talking about people that want to live in vans." I was a lower middle class kid with a lackluster middle class education and good manners so I was able to scrape by on $17K a year and "live" off my motorcycle and later out of my truck in between stints at a lodge in back country Alaska. It was privileged. Sure. And there were before the crash many of us doing it.…

Thanks for this counterpoint. I've met various beach bums, ski instructors, and summer resort waiters, from all social classes, who were taking a break in this way. Compare also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_year and the concept of a wanderjahr.

Re: Living in a Van

#97

Post by mturmon » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 9:56 PM UTC

pclark wrote: post #22

never thought i'd get a chance to promote foster hunting on hacker news, but et voila: the polar opposite of this article – something that would inspire you to want to live in a van – can be found on this fantastic blog: http://www.arestlesstransplant.com

Beautiful. Reminds me of so many people I've seen at beaches and campgrounds out west.

Re: Living in a Van

#98

Post by killahpriest » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 10:06 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #89

tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting also to note that the ability to lead any kind of normal or predictable life in this fashion is itself a privilege. People in the software business can get away with wearing the same clothes, coming in wrinkled, missing the occasional shower, and, for that matter, getting in a little later after having to move the van in the middle of the night. Our field is extremely accommodating. Put yourself in…

> It is interesting also to note that the ability to lead any kind of normal or predictable life in this fashion is itself a privilege. My brother's definition of rich is the ability to control your own schedule.

And yours?

Re: Living in a Van

#99

Post by defen » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 10:07 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #15

This seems like a romantically bohemian way to approximate a pampered middle class kid's idea of how poor people live. If you want to save money, you can try what they actually do, which is move to a less desirable neighborhood and spend one third what you do on rent for an apartment. You live in a crazy expensive neck of the woods? Nice to meet you; I live in Japan, cry me a river. There's old folks on social securi…

So if I eat rice and beans[1] to save money while working on a startup, does that mean I'm trying to emulate the lifestyle of an Andean peasant? The article specifically says it's not about people who live in vans involuntarily, and it explicitly lists reasons for doing it that have nothing to do with saving money ("travel the country", "maintain a lifestyle of minimalism and self-reliance"). Even if your goal is just to save money, why should that involve doing what poor people do, or emulating their lifestyle? Why would you move to the shitty part of town, where you have to deal with higher rates of street violence, vandalism, theft, etc?

[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html#f1n

Re: Living in a Van

#100

Post by runjake » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 10:30 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #15

This seems like a romantically bohemian way to approximate a pampered middle class kid's idea of how poor people live. If you want to save money, you can try what they actually do, which is move to a less desirable neighborhood and spend one third what you do on rent for an apartment. You live in a crazy expensive neck of the woods? Nice to meet you; I live in Japan, cry me a river. There's old folks on social securi…

> This seems like a romantically bohemian way to approximate a pampered middle class kid's idea of how poor people live.

That's pretty insulting, Patrick. Having been a person who grew up very, very poor and a person who's also done something similar to this (lived in the woods), I can tell you that (for me) it was not about trying to "experience" poverty. It was about getting away from the madness and complexities of modern life... the bills, the spending, the distraction, the self-reliance, the responsibilities.

The author didn't say anything about giving away money and collecting cans. They only espoused "minimalism".

I will say that it gave me a newfound appreciation for society and the infrastructure we have that I had previously taken for granted. I don't have to be constantly cold and wet, I can take hot showers when I want to, I can eat what I want, when I want and so on.