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The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

thinkinggamefilm.com

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Re: The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me phrase it a bit differently, then: AI generated cats in Ghibli style are a waste, we should definitely do less of that. I did not hold that opinion before the documentary Education-style infographics and videos are OK.

I'm glad you're not the sole arbiter for what is wasteful and what isn't.

Just because you disagree does not make them wrong though

Re: The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

#94
post #70

reposting this from youtube comment From 1:14:55-1:15:20, within the span of 25 seconds, the way Demis spoke about releasing all known sequences without a shred of doubt was so amazing to see. There wasn't a single second where he worried about the business side of it (profits, earnings, shareholders, investors) —he just knew it had to be open source for the betterment of the world. Gave me goosebumps. I watched that…

Another way to interpret this (and I don't mean it pejoratively at all): Demis has been optimizing his chances for winning a nobel prize for quite some time now. Releasing the data increased that chance. He also would have been fairly certain that the commercial value of the predictions was fairly low (simply predicting structures accurately was never the rate-limiting step for downstream things like drug discovery).…

I think that's a rather conspiratorial way of framing it.

I think it's more about someone trying to do the most good that was possible at that time.

I doubt he cares much about prizes or money at this point.

Re: The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

#95
post #94
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to interpret this (and I don't mean it pejoratively at all): Demis has been optimizing his chances for winning a nobel prize for quite some time now. Releasing the data increased that chance. He also would have been fairly certain that the commercial value of the predictions was fairly low (simply predicting structures accurately was never the rate-limiting step for downstream things like drug discovery).…

I think that's a rather conspiratorial way of framing it. I think it's more about someone trying to do the most good that was possible at that time. I doubt he cares much about prizes or money at this point.

It's hardly a conspiracy to use strategy and intelligence to maximize the probability of achieving the outcome you desire.

He doesn't have to care much about prizes or money at this point: he won his prize and he gets all the hardware and talent he needs.

Re: The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

#96
post #45

AlphaFold is optimization, not thinking. Propaganda 'r us.

Not sure why this is downvoted. The comment cuts to the core of the "Intelligence vs. Curve-Fitting" debate. From my humble perspective as a PhD in the molecular biology /biophysics field you are fundamentally correct: AlphaFold is optimization (curve-fitting), not thinking. But calling it "propaganda" might be a slight oversimplification of why that optimization is useful. If you ask AlphaFold to predict a protein t…

It seems that to solve the protein folding problem in a fundamental way would require solving chemistry, yet the big lie (or false hope) of reductionism is that discovering the fundamental laws of the universe such as quantum theory doesn't in fact help that much with figuring out the laws/dynamics at higher levels of abstraction such as chemistry.

So, in the meantime (or perhaps for ever), we look for patterns rather than laws, with neural nets being one of the best tools we have available to do this.

Of course ANNs need massive amounts of data to "generalize" well, while protein folding only had a small amount available due to the months of effort needed to experimentally discover how any protein is folded, so DeepMind threw the kitchen sink at the problem, apparently using a diffusion like process in AlphaFold 3 to first determine large scale structure then refine it, and using co-evolution of proteins as another source of data to address the paucity.

So, OK, they found a way around our lack of knowledge of chemistry and managed to get an extremely useful result all the same. The movie, propaganda or not, never suggested anything different, and "at least 90% correct" was always the level at which it was understood the result would be useful, even if 100% based on having solved chemistry / molecular geometry would be better.

Re: The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

#97
post #86

reposting this from youtube comment From 1:14:55-1:15:20, within the span of 25 seconds, the way Demis spoke about releasing all known sequences without a shred of doubt was so amazing to see. There wasn't a single second where he worried about the business side of it (profits, earnings, shareholders, investors) —he just knew it had to be open source for the betterment of the world. Gave me goosebumps. I watched that…

My interpretation of that moment was that they had already decided to give away protein sequences as charity, it was just a decision of all as a bundle vs fielding individual requests (a 'service'). Still great of them to do, and as can be seen it's worth it as a marketing move.

(as an aside, this is a common thing that comes up when you have a good model: do you make a server that allows people to do one-off or small-scale predictions, or do you take a whole query set and run it in batch and save the results in a database; this comes up a lot)

Re: The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm concerned that coders and the general public will confuse optimization with intelligence. That's the nature of propaganda, substituting sleight of hand to create a false narrative. btw an excellent explanation, thank you.

What's the difference between optimisation and intelligence?

For a start optimization is a process, and intelligence is a capability.

Re: The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

#99
post #57

Watched it this week. Pretty good. There are a couple parts at the start and the end where a lady points her phone camera at stuff and asks an AI about what it sees. Must have been mind-blowing stuff when this section was recorded (2023), but now it's just the bare minimum people expect of their phones. Crazy times we're living in.

I was ok with that as "fledgling AI" at the start of the movie/documentary, but thought that going back to it and having the chatbot suggest a chess book opening to Hassabis at the end was cheesy and misleading.

They should have ended the movie on the success of AlphaFold.

Re: The Thinking Game Film – Google DeepMind documentary

#100

Watched it a while ago. Made me seriously think about AI and what we should use it for. I feel like all the entertainment use cases (image and video gen) are a complete waste.

The chatbots and image editors are just a side-show. The real value is coming in e.g. chemistry (Alpha fold etc all), fusion research, weather prediction etc.

ML is used in weather prediction since the 80s and is the backbone of it since almost a decade.

Not sure what are LLMs supposed to do there.

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