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EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

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Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#91

Post by hn_throw2025 »

jacquesm wrote: post #65
cbeach wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK we've had an authoritarian Conservative government for 14 years, followed by an even more authoritarian Labour government, which we'll have until 2029. In 2029 it's likely we'll have a more libertarian government: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/... Reform will repeal some of the awful legislation that's been passed over the last few years (e.g. Online Safety Act). They've been l…

It is a massive assumption that reform will win the elections.

I think it’s plausible that the UK electorate are sick of switching between Tories and Labour for the last hundred years, especially as they have become indistinguishable in many respects. They were held back because there wasn’t a plausible alternative that had a hope of being elected. Reform has been leading the polls for nearly all this year, so let’s check in a year to see where they stand. But Labour (especially) and the Tories are not going to see an upswing any time soon. The problems in the country (mostly economic due to policy) continue, and their supporters are doomed to the madness of doing the same thing but expecting different results.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#92

Post by forgetfulness »

basisword wrote: post #80
zelphirkalt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is of course a process, that does not lend itself to be democratic, because it is way longer than most people's attention span. People don't manage to remember things that happened in politics 4 years ago in their own country. Now they are required to follow up on dozens of shitty proposals, all probably illegal in their own country, and those don't even happen in their own country? That divides the number of pe…

>> that does not lend itself to be democratic, because it is way longer than most people's attention span The attention span of the general public _shouldn't_ matter. That's why we elect politicians.

That could still be democratic in principle if it weren’t for lobbyists

If legislative processes are so drawn out and complex that no more than a handful of ordinary citizens could keep track of them, the advantage that paid lobbyists have over the public is enormous

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#93

Post by scotty79 »

petcat wrote: post #81
sillyfluke wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it never hurts to try and find alternate ways of placating the US in order to make them get over their Greenland obession.

I don't care about Greenland one way or another, but I find it funny that the Europeans are so visibly upset about this when the Danish took the territory without permission themselves and are now crying that an even bigger thief might want to come take it from them.

Time is a factor. Taking land is what was done in the past. US wanting to do it now is as if Mexico decided to revive slavery and threatend to capture Afroamericans in USA. It's a touchy subject and I think most of US wouldn't be exactly on board with this idea.

Especially since putin shows us exactly what happens if you try.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#94

Post by npodbielski »

tasoeur wrote: post #77

At this point, it’s clear these sort of measures will go through, if not now but in some foreseeable future. What would be our best bet moving forward? Moving to signal/telegram?

Signal is centralized. So this company operating in EU, under EU laws, will have to do the scanning too. How they implement it however and when and if at all remains to be seen. All maybe they will not and EU will block signal. Maybe they will allow you install apk and Google will block installing from apks directly, basically forcing companies to do the scanning.

And if everybody will do the scanning, maybe they will be sending all of this data to the giant EU server then that will look for 'problematic citizens' like in minority report.

Who knows, but it seems like running your own private chat for your own and your family and friends will be the only way to have some privacy in a few years.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#95

Post by falcor84 »

margorczynski wrote: post #22

How they're packaging it now? Terrorism? Child porn? Russian agents? Either way politicians prefer to push unpopular stuff like this via the EU because the responsibility gets muddied - "we didn't want it, the EU regulation requires us to spy on you!".

Well, historically "Won't someone think of the children!" has been the most successful, so they're using that here too.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#96

Post by surgical_fire »

piker wrote: post #6

Even living nearby in the UK it blows my mind how quickly the EU proposes, kills and then revives and passes controversial legislation in such a short timeframe.

> passes controversial legislation in such a short timeframe.

It did not pass.

I think the problem here is that you don't understand how the system works.

The EU parliament still would have to approve this for it to become legislation.

This is akin to a national government proposing a law, and the congress having to vote for it.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#97

Post by oblio »

4bpp wrote: post #84
arlort wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not complicated for anyone with above room temperature IQ. And they're almost identical to how it works in the member countries anyway And in a democracy if you don't know how your own laws are made the fault is always yours as a voter

"The plans for scanning your chats were on display for fifty Earth years at the local planning department in Alpha Centauri"? Nobody's attention span is infinite. I don't doubt I could understand all details of the EU legislative process and keep track of what sort of terrible proposals are underway if I put in the time, but I have a day job, hobbies that are frankly more interesting, and enough national legislation…

> I don't understand why I am obliged to surrender either a large and ever-growing slice of my attention or my one-over-400something-million share of sovereignty.

Because your puny state is no match for the US, China or soon enough, India. Heck, even Russia in its current incarnation outmatches 80% of the EU countries.

That's it, it's that simple, conceptually.

It's basically the Articles of Confederation vs the Constitution of the United States.

Yes, it's not a pretty process, but the alternative is worse.

We can all live in La-La-Land and pretend we're hobbits living in the Shire ("Keep your nose out of trouble and no trouble will come to you") until reality comes crashing down.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#98

Post by npodbielski »

AndrewSwift wrote: post #3

It would be nice to have details: It rewards or penalizes online services depending on whether they agree to carry out “voluntary” scanning, effectively making intrusive monitoring a business expectation rather than a legal requirement.

As a first step, after that they will expand it and force to do it effectively boiling the frog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#99

Post by cbeach »

forgotoldacc wrote: post #45
cbeach wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK we've had an authoritarian Conservative government for 14 years, followed by an even more authoritarian Labour government, which we'll have until 2029. In 2029 it's likely we'll have a more libertarian government: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/... Reform will repeal some of the awful legislation that's been passed over the last few years (e.g. Online Safety Act). They've been l…

America also has a party that always runs on the idea of small government and restoring rights to the people. Every time they get power, they do the exact opposite.

[flagged]

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#100

Post by a022311 »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #31
piker wrote: post #6

Even living nearby in the UK it blows my mind how quickly the EU proposes, kills and then revives and passes controversial legislation in such a short timeframe.

Well, the impression of speed is mainly in the head of the headline writers. What has actually happened is that after about three years of faffing about the Council finally decided on it negotiation position begore the Coreper 2 meeting last week, thought it seems they ran put of time at actual the meeting and had to have the formal approval this week. The Council is only one of three parties that draft new laws, so…

> Nothing substantial has happened to the three texts since last week, it's just that "chat control is back" drives traffic and "Council preparatory body formally approves draft position that got consensus previously but didn't formally get passed because people were fighting over Ukraine stuff for too long" doesn't.

While I agree with your point, it's still crucial to raise awareness of Europe's actions. It may be a small step, but it is not insignificant.

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