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Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

reuters.com

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Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#91
post #3

What this shows is solar is increasingly threatening the electric utility business model. Even without net metering, demand destruction will cause the traditional model to stop working.

What will people do at night?

At night, what people will do is wait until the morning to run the washing machine.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#92
post #3

What this shows is solar is increasingly threatening the electric utility business model. Even without net metering, demand destruction will cause the traditional model to stop working.

> solar is increasingly threatening the electric utility business model

The writing is on the wall that the electric utility business model is a dying business like the career of bus or truck driver. Some countries will take a while to realize due to head in the sand , tariffs and corruption.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#93
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

State capitalism like you described totally undermines the price system by replacing profit-and-loss–guided entrepreneurial calculation with political allocation of resources, thereby rendering economic calculation increasingly impossible and eroding the coordinating function of the market process.

Yes, but nobody has found a more effective way to build infrastructure in poor countries. State capitalism as described is how infrastructure development happened in Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.

The fact that infrastructure was built under state capitalism does not demonstrate the superiority of central planning, only that capital accumulation occurred despite intervention, often financed by prior scarcity, foreign savings, or coerced transfers; absent market prices and entrepreneurial profit-and-loss, the state cannot know whether the infrastructure created was the most value-productive use of scarce resources, only that concrete and steel were poured.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#94

Great, you can easily switch them off or even better, store heat under ground for the winter.

Lahore doesn't really have a winter as such: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahore#Climate

Air conditioning is, however, life-changing.

Thermal energy storage can potentially power air conditioning, but it isn't a very well developed technology.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#95

How many years before this happens in parts of the United States?

Up to the locals in the US. Depends what their pain threshold is for falling behind and looking a bit behind the times. I think FOMO is going to be a big driver in a few years. This is not a left vs right topic. It's a money topic. And my impression of the US is that they love getting stuff on the cheap. Solar energy should be such a thing and it's getting painfully obvious that the US is paying a steep price where t…

Mexico could start producing synfuels with abundant solar energy and exporting them to the US, but that is far from the course plotted by President Sheinbaum, even though (or perhaps because) her doctorate is in the use of energy. Instead she's doubling down on oil drilling.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#96
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment appears to be unrelated to Pakistan and, due to the confusion of units, has been reduced to nonsense. Moreover, your implied calculations don't work out. If we assume that you meant €7000 for 6 kilowatts peak (not 6 kelvin wurtzite henries or 6 kilowatt hours, neither of which is sensible) the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price for their solar panels and therefore got…

> You seem to have created this account just to troll I find it fascinating that someone is willing to pay for accounts to swing opinions or seed FUD on a topics like solar panels. It’s happening here, it’s clearly happening everywhere on every topic.

HN accounts don't require payment.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#97
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great to hear about the fast payback period, wishing you reliable power :)

tibbydudeza didn't post about a fast payback period. Maybe neebz is his wife?

Broadly speaking, payback period in South Africa is very fast due to similar grid economics to Pakistan.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#98
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but nobody has found a more effective way to build infrastructure in poor countries. State capitalism as described is how infrastructure development happened in Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.

The fact that infrastructure was built under state capitalism does not demonstrate the superiority of central planning, only that capital accumulation occurred despite intervention, often financed by prior scarcity, foreign savings, or coerced transfers; absent market prices and entrepreneurial profit-and-loss, the state cannot know whether the infrastructure created was the most value-productive use of scarce resour…

I think it demonstrates the increased variance of central planning. The Congo Free State was also centrally planned, and so was the Holocaust, the Holodomor, the Armenian Genocide, Suharto's mass murder of suspected PKI sympathizers, etc. But the expected outcome for poor countries is that they stay poor and don't develop into industrialized export giants the way my laundry list of countries did.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#99
post #83

The payback periods get me confused. A relative set up solar a year ago in one of the sunniest places in Europe, the Canaries, cost €7,000 for 6KW. He just ran the math on it and found out that the payback period is 15 years. The only way to make it profitable is government subsidies. How can it be profitable to install solar in continental Europe where taxes and labor costs are much higher while having much less sun…

Your comment appears to be unrelated to Pakistan and, due to the confusion of units, has been reduced to nonsense. Moreover, your implied calculations don't work out. If we assume that you meant €7000 for 6 kilowatts peak (not 6 kelvin wurtzite henries or 6 kilowatt hours, neither of which is sensible) the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price for their solar panels and therefore got…

sorry yes. He told me, installation is 6,000 W and is about 91% efficient at peak. 12 460W panels. panels point in optimal direction. In spain he sells excess to grid at €0.04 per KHW. Lowest cost of importing is €0.085 for KHW at night, about €0.22 at peak hours. He ran the numbers on power not bought (self consumption) + power sold, over a year. He said it comes to about €500 for the year. He added this really surprised him and he started asking around, and this seems to be typical for rooftop solar in the Canarias.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#100
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to have created this account just to troll I find it fascinating that someone is willing to pay for accounts to swing opinions or seed FUD on a topics like solar panels. It’s happening here, it’s clearly happening everywhere on every topic.

HN accounts don't require payment.

Someone is paying either real people to do this kind of thing, or for bots or LLMs to do it.

Someone wants to sway opinions, and they think it matters enough.

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