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The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

arstechnica.com

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Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#91

Post by hshdhdhj4444 »

llm_nerd wrote: post #12
usrnm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple also helped develop USB C more than a decade ago, they still had to be forced to actually use it in their phones. There is no contradiction here

Users all got to complain that the EU are the meanies responsible for their old wires and chargers and accessory no longer being compatible, but it seems infinitely more likely that Apple was going to adopt USB-C on largely the same schedule even if the EU didn't intercede. To be clear, Apple had already moved their laptops and computers to USB-C -- long in advance of almost any one else -- and had moved their iPad P…

> but it seems infinitely more likely that Apple was going to adopt USB-C on largely the same schedule even if the EU didn't intercede

There is no reason to believe this at all given how hard Apple fought the EU on this.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#92

Post by yyyk »

star-glider wrote: post #5

I'm libertarian, but I have to say watching the EU torment Apple has been delightful and one of the stronger arguments for muscular regulatory action. The USB-C thing just made everything better. It cost Apple basically nothing---maybe a few million/year of profit, which for a company that's worth $3 trillion is nothing, and it made my and many other people's lives quite a bit more convenient. Same with this Airdrop…

Careful on what you wish for. The same regulatory action can be (is) being used for Chat Control (that dropped off the main page for some reason). Ultimately neither power center acts for the general interest.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#93

Post by hshdhdhj4444 »

techpression wrote: post #54
gambiting wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> which they were already almost completely done doing Honest question - why did they stick with lighting on iphones for so long, given that usb-c has been ubiquitus on phones for years before that point. I mean we can sit here and say "duh apple was going to do it anyway" but like.....why didn't they? Why did samsung have usb-c phones long before apple?

They openly said why, millions upon millions of devices (speakers etc) people wanted to use with lightning connectors. There was never a good time and EU putting a deadline on it gets Apple free of the e-waste accusations.

No one was accusing Apple of e-waste when for decades the world had decided common standards were a great way to reduce e-waste.

Outside of America this has been obvious since the mid 2000s when people complained about a proliferation of chargers with phones because pre-iPhone the non US cellphone market was far more advanced.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#95

Post by echelon »

internet2000 wrote: post #78
madeofpalk wrote: post #27

People keep mentioning Wi-Fi Aware with this, but so far haven't seen anyone actually prove that this is the case. Apple undoubtedly added Wi-Fi Aware support to iOS https://developer.apple.com/documentation/WiFiAware , but its not clear whether iOS actually supports AirDrop over Wi-Fi Aware. Apple clearly hasn't completely dropped AWDL for AirDrop, because you can still AirDrop from iOS 26 to earlier devices. Note t…

It's frustrating how much people want this to be an EU win they'll fabricate evidence. The same happened with RCS in iOS, everybody jumped in to credit it to the EU, when you can find the document spelling out how RCS is a requirement for China.

I don't care which sovereign state or union forces the trillion dollar tech giant to behave. I'm just glad it happened. And I applaud China if this was their victory.

I want it to happen with a thousand times more intensity for Apple and Google.

We should own these devices. We shouldn't be subsistence farmers on the most important device category in the world.

They need to be opened up to competition, standards, right to repair, privacy, web app installs, browser choice, messaging, etc. etc.

They shouldn't be strong arming tiny developers or the entire automotive industry. It's vastly unfair. And this strip mining impacts us as consumers.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#96

Post by jauntywundrkind »

gambiting wrote: post #48
llm_nerd wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Begging? Apple filed a couple of light objections -- basically a "don't regulate us, bro" -- and then moved on. Their resistance was laughably superficial Look, Apple is a predatory, extraordinarily greedy company, but these sorts of "thanks EU!" discussions are a riot. Thanks EU, for making Apple support a clone of an Apple feature that didn't exist until Apple made it, and for "forcing" Apple to transition their li…

>> which they were already almost completely done doing Honest question - why did they stick with lighting on iphones for so long, given that usb-c has been ubiquitus on phones for years before that point. I mean we can sit here and say "duh apple was going to do it anyway" but like.....why didn't they? Why did samsung have usb-c phones long before apple?

I think this whole narrative being spun here that Good Guy Apple was Being Oppressed by the lowly end users & wanted to do the right thing (be thrown into the briar patch) all along, just never could form the political will for it and needed EU intervention is some insane fucking weird ass made up nonsense. WTF wtf wtf? Surely you must be joking.

Apple has had MfI certification on Apple compatible products for decades & has actively wanted to protect that revenue stream & domain of control. If folks could just plug in devices & have them just work, that would erode their ownership.

And just as bad, it would raise all sorts of questions like "why does this mouse not do anything on my iPhone" and obscure the careful market delineations Apple vigorously has established between its products (which makes people buy more products than they need). Apple never wanted to be a good guy, Apple never wanted to lower itself to the common market of peripherals and standards. Their involvement with USB-C was likely far far far before it was apparent their device teams would have to give up MfI controls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MFi_Program

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#98

Post by KK7NIL »

yearolinuxdsktp wrote: post #75
KK7NIL wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USB-C is a worse mechanical connector for a device plugged in thousands of times over its lifetime. USB-C connectors are usually rated for 10k cycles. Do you have any evidence that lighting connectors are rated for more cycles than that? > The female port of a USB-C connector has a relatively fragile center blade. Lightning's layout was the opposite which makes it more robust and easier to clean. This is very weak…

The 10K cycle insertion rating for USB-C is an idealized metric that does not include lateral force, torque, device movement, or real-world wear patterns. These non-axial forces are a known cause of USB-C port failures and are explicitly not accounted for in the standard 10k-cycle durability claim. USB-C center tongue female design means that the port will break before the cable. With lightning, the cable plug takes…

> These non-axial forces are a known cause of USB-C port failures and are explicitly not accounted for in the standard 10k-cycle durability claim.

I agree and that's par for the course for any standard, they have to limit the requirements to something that is economically manufacutrable and testable.

Meanwhile, lightning connectors have no public standard to speak of so this is a mute point.

> USB-C center tongue female design means that the port will break before the cable. With lightning, the cable plug takes all the stress.

This is another a priori armchair expert argument which I just put very little weight on without data to back it up.

> Apple doesn’t publish insertion cycles rating for Lightning connectors, so it’s impossible to provide empirical evidence of that.

That conclusion does not follow. We can still obtain empirical evidence through direct testing without Apple publishing anything.

> In my personal experience, I’ve had two USB-C ports go bad on two MacBooks. I’ve yet to own a USB-C-charging phone, but I’ve never had a Lightning port fail.

That's fair, everyone has different anecdotal experiences as a foundation for their opinion here. The problem is that anecdotal data is just not very informative to others, that's all.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#99

Post by yieldcrv »

internet2000 wrote: post #78
madeofpalk wrote: post #27

People keep mentioning Wi-Fi Aware with this, but so far haven't seen anyone actually prove that this is the case. Apple undoubtedly added Wi-Fi Aware support to iOS https://developer.apple.com/documentation/WiFiAware , but its not clear whether iOS actually supports AirDrop over Wi-Fi Aware. Apple clearly hasn't completely dropped AWDL for AirDrop, because you can still AirDrop from iOS 26 to earlier devices. Note t…

It's frustrating how much people want this to be an EU win they'll fabricate evidence. The same happened with RCS in iOS, everybody jumped in to credit it to the EU, when you can find the document spelling out how RCS is a requirement for China.

There is very little literature about Chinese requirements rolled out

and when there is, its talked about as American tech companies bowing to an authoritarian regime as opposed to fighting a burgeoning market force acting on behalf of consumers and the American tech companies losing that fight

the latter is how the EU work is syndicated

in between is that there likely is no fight with Chinese regulators alongside an unwillingness to alter access to that market

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#100

Post by notepad0x90 »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #86
notepad0x90 wrote: post #81

Look, I don't like some of the things the EU is doing and I think Apple should consider (along with other tech companies) selling products tailed to the EU, Asia and rest of the world. In the long-run, it might be cheaper. That said, they are setting a good example of legislating for tech. We should be doing a lot of that here in the US. I don't need a bulletproof, ultra-secure, end-to-end encrypted, formally verifie…

> the FTC exists to regulate among other things, wireless comms FCC purview?

oops, I meant FCC, edited it.
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