Maybe there are too many colleges if there's not enough qualified students. Perhaps save taxpayer money and downsize UCSD. Better have fewer, but qualified, students than load it up with people who shouldn't be there.
False dichotomy.
What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
91–100 of 183 posts
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
"But SAT and ACT scores are the most reliable predictors of a student’s math ability, the report found...." how else do they gauge someone's math ability then?
They don’t. The movements pushing these ideas are against the idea of aptitude testing. Many of them are even against the idea of having advanced classes for those who are ahead. It’s not a niche ideology, sadly. It’s going mainstream. A core part of Zohran Mamdani’s platform was his goal to phase out gifted education programs, for example.
Even though he personally benefited from them. Pull up the ladder!
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#93How much mathematics is needed anyway? In the day job, how many people have to use maths skills beyond arithmetic? What about trigonometry? Differential equations? Integration and calculus? To be honest, if I am using Boolean Logic then that might as well be 'advanced mathematics', far beyond the comprehension of non-coders. Even simple trigonometry isn't so simple to most people. Clearly we need some people on the p…
You don't work in production, engineering, or finance, do you?
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#94> “Who is going to trust somebody who got a degree in airline engineering who doesn’t know how to think through a problem without a computer telling them the answer?” Years ago when I was working in education (Canadian public schools) our school board had a conference ahead of the school year. The keynote was an inclusive-ed researcher / consultant / speaker who told an anecdote of how they had successfully lobbied f…
Are there degrees in “airline engineering?”
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#95They can do math?
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s why it isn’t a reliable indicator of aptitude. A student who earns all A’s at a top level public school and a student who earns all A’s at a low level public school aren’t necessarily operating at the same academic level.
They asked what else could be used. I told them, then I explained why it wouldn't work as well as a standardized test. And the variance can happen even in "top level" public schools, for certain definitions of "top level". I went to one of the best high schools in the nation (as rated by college acceptance rates, SAT/ACT scores, etc). There were still teachers people wanted to avoid because they were seen as harsher…
Of course you can have grade inflation at top level schools, but there is a reason that they are considered "top level" in the first place.
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#97> “Who is going to trust somebody who got a degree in airline engineering who doesn’t know how to think through a problem without a computer telling them the answer?” Years ago when I was working in education (Canadian public schools) our school board had a conference ahead of the school year. The keynote was an inclusive-ed researcher / consultant / speaker who told an anecdote of how they had successfully lobbied f…
To be fair no one ever takes a moment to show you what the math is useful for. You're just expected to learn it because it's said to be important.
Word. I got taught matrix multiplication in high school without any context. "Here's a grid of numbers kid. Go do some elementary school arithmetic on all of them. No it's not Sudoku I promise".
If only I'd know how important matrix multiplication would turn out to be...
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#98Let's be clear though, there's quite a difference in doing problems related to working memory, mental computation, etc. under time constraints - usually what you get when taking standardized tests, aptitude tests, IQ tests, etc. - and solving "actual" real world math problems, like mathematical modelling, numerical methods, and what have you. I'm sure if I walk around in the office and ask people a problem like "Car…
Did you read the article? These kids can't even divide a fraction in half. It's basic numeracy and foundational skills that are missing.
I did. My comment was to the “Who is going to trust somebody who got a degree in airline engineering who doesn’t know how to think through a problem without a computer telling them the answer?” comment in the article. Even if you suck at math when enrolling college, if you actually manage to get through some math-heavy STEM degree, you've probably learned the math through your studies.
I also did check out the paper, and it does indeed seem like the number of students that are placed into Math 2 (The lowest or second lowest placement if I read it correctly) has 20-fold increased in just 5 years, while most other Math placements have stayed somewhat stable, at least toward the top.
My conclusion is that the students that simply don't have the math knowledge to pursue STEM-degrees, will either not enter them, or finish them, so that might not be a huge problem? They'll purse other majors that don't require math.
My hunch is also that those that are not interested in math, have found shortcuts to get through their math classes the past 5 years (cheating? AI?). But, then again, what are the chances they'll actually end up working with anything math-related after college?
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a well-known effect where segregating kids into gifted VS non-gifted harms the education of the non-gifted while only having a marginal impact on the gifted: https://ncrge.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/982/2019/04... Basically, non-gifted kids learn from the gifted ones. It's that whole, "positive influence from peers" thing. In the long term, having gifted programs results in a handful of accelerated s…
> Basically, non-gifted kids learn from the gifted ones. It's that whole, "positive influence from peers" thing. In other words, let’s drag the smart students down, disallow them a better education, and instead force them to teach their peers because we don’t think their teachers are doing a good job? This is a terrible way to solve a problem.
Honestly, nothing has done a better job of solidifying my understanding of a material than trying to explain it to other people. We should be giving students more opportunities to do this, not less.
Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?
#100cant do mathematic? shouldnt it be mathematics? ie "...students cant do maths anymore?"
Both are fine. The singular form "math" is predominant in the States. But, notably, not "mathematic"
so is the saying "could care less", but both are wrong and indicative of some kind of low level neurological deficit, possibly lead contamination or something similar