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Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#91

Post by red-iron-pine »

jiehong wrote: post #48
FinnKuhn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you expect to shoot them down? They are small and very quick and disappear shortly after appearing.

Stand-by drone-intercepting drones? Tracking them is a need first and foremost. How about a down-facing radar on top of the Aviation Control Tower?

if the downward facing radar sees them then it's already too late -- that drone gonna hit something or it's dropped its payload.

a couple of RPG sized rounds dropped from 10000 ft up could easily close runways and shutdown an airport for hours. hell just being there and being UFO could lead to all sorts of flight re-routing and chaos

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#92

Post by red-iron-pine »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #84
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #31

I dunno if calling them "mysterious" is really helpful in this case. Just shoot them down if they get close, that should be the response in a wartime scenario too. Plus, given it's in civilian areas, they can use the expensive laser defense systems to do that.

The problem with this is, if you shoot and miss, the bullet goes somewhere. Airports are near cities, and there tend to be people "down range".

nah most airports ain't. not all of em mind you, but usually you keep people away

these projectiles aren't going to travel 9km unless you're shooting off SAMs or other serious AA

i'd be more worried about FOD on the runways getting sucked into an engine or popping the tires of service vehicles

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#93

Post by red-iron-pine »

Yokolos wrote: post #32
slightwinder wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western Europe still thinks that if a war breaks out, it'll be tanks and soldiers going into the Baltic states, and we'll crush them with our advanced arsenal. Drones are not for conquering, but destruction. We see this in Ukraine now, where Drones are not making the whole war, but are just one gear of the machinery. And Western leaders know this, they are preparing Drones, but refitting the western machinery takes…

> Drones are not for conquering, but destruction. Yes, and we have plenty of infrastructure to destroy. It's a target rich environment. > And Western leaders know this, they are preparing Drones I've seen zero indication that this is true. Do you have sources that we're in any way preparing for a large-scale drone war?

there was literally an article just the other day about the US buying a million drones and building the capacity to continue that level of To&E

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#94

Post by red-iron-pine »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #67
billy99k wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think after years of crushing defeats in battle and sanctions, that they have the money or soldiers to fight the EU? If they did, they would have taken over Ukraine by now. Now if China gets involved? It's a different story.

If China gets involved directly (e.g. not through supplies) then the conflict will escalate; no party wants to escalate this, and for years now this has been a tight-rope proxy war of sorts, where Europe and the US try to support Ukraine as much as possible without being directly involved. Likewise, Russia has been getting supplies and people from their allies.

the key difference is that China and Russia have direct borders and land beefs; they may well be rivals, but it's easy for China to feed them tech and learn from their mistakes while getting a serious cut (25% or more) on oil.

discount at the gas station while a potential rival hollows itself out and turns into the Canada of China -- a mostly empty resource hub that follows your lead

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#95

Post by red-iron-pine »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #85
sigwinch wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the topic of what Putin wants , I’m increasingly swayed that domestic politics limit the choices he’s given. I wonder how the same siloviki but a different leader would perform. On the topic of a wide drone attack coinciding with land invasion, I think (rightly or wrongly) the drone attack will be attributed to Russia early. Even though the life of a Russian soldier is approximately the same as a drone, it’d be ve…

Could you expand a bit on what you mean by your first paragraph?

not that guy, but to quote someone else from HN

something to the effect of: "Russia has a way out of this war. They can release some or all of Ukrainian territory, take their ball and go home.

Putin however has no way out of this war, as dictators cannot look weak and there was already the revolt from Prigozhn.

There is no reality where he can just walk away without facing repercussions.

He could try to repress his way to security but the Tsars tried that too..."

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#96

Post by victorbjorklund »

aduwah wrote: post #18
victorbjorklund wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would they get drones without money or soldiers?

Oil still flowing

So money? And oil is down a lot. They even have fuel shortages in Russia. They have to import fuel.

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#97

Post by infecto »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #90
infecto wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not rule out China out either. Let’s not forget some of their recent state backed exploits as well as the “weather” balloon that flew over America.

why is China flying drones over Italy? is Italy a big backer of Taiwanese independence? it is almost certainly Russia, or NATO running drills. also don't underestimate idiots and assholes in the same way that incoming flights to airports still have to deal with people shining laser pointers at them on an irregular but not uncommon basis

It most likely is Russia but China is always worth considering. They have a strategic partnership and have been part of many probes into western nations both physical and digital. I would not doubt it’s Russia but I think it’s good to always consider the possibilities.

China is as much of an adversary to the west as Russia but they are a lot smarter about it.

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#98

Post by infecto »

creer wrote: post #88
infecto wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. At least in the prior case this year the airports all shutdown. I see no reason you should not be able to quickly react to a scenario like this? Most European airports have some sort of federal response in or near the airport anyway. Not that big leap to think you should be able to jump on it.

Civilian airports can "shut down" by telling all traffic to (glibly) find other things to do. The traffic is still around. How resistant is all this traffic to jamming? and what kind of jamming? You can probably experiment with that around an isolated military airport. Perhaps. "Perhaps" because you still have civilian traffic in line of sight. I don't know that it's an easy decision to screw around with jamming arou…

The jammer argument is fair and I just assumed since other airports have different levels of counter measures that this is a possibility. These are targeted shots of jamming with distances that commercial flights should not be in.

But yes detection is key and surprising airports don’t already have this. This is not an exactly new phenomenon.

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#99

Post by asplake »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #91
jiehong wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stand-by drone-intercepting drones? Tracking them is a need first and foremost. How about a down-facing radar on top of the Aviation Control Tower?

if the downward facing radar sees them then it's already too late -- that drone gonna hit something or it's dropped its payload. a couple of RPG sized rounds dropped from 10000 ft up could easily close runways and shutdown an airport for hours. hell just being there and being UFO could lead to all sorts of flight re-routing and chaos

Payload? You don’t need actual explosives to cause disruption, and for a state-sponsored actor to use them would be an act of war. The perfect being the enemy of the good here, provisioning for less hostile cases seems eminently sensible.

Re: Mysterious drones have been spotted at airports across Europe

#100

Post by tim333 »

FinnKuhn wrote: post #38
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I don't understand why there isn't a more aggressive response to flying drones illegally near airports. IMO they should just be shot down. Actually some years they were very proudly showing birds of prey that they had trained to do just that. Whatever happened to that? After 9/11 there was a huge worldwide shift in e.g. airplane security due to the threat of terrorism, but now there's drones out there they…

How do you expect to shoot them down? They are small and very quick and disappear shortly after appearing.

You could just go up in a light aircraft with a shot gun?
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