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Dark Pattern Games

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Re: Dark Pattern Games

#91

Post by Bratmon »

vintermann wrote: post #13
p1necone wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Competition' is listed as a dark pattern. Ya know, the core thing common to basically all games going back millenia, this site is ridiculous.

The site says: "People like a challenge and playing against other people is often how games provide this challenge. Competition by itself is not necessarily a dark pattern. Classic games like chess and checkers, and most sports have competition. It's when competition is combined with other dark patterns that problems arise." And this is true. In particular, competition where you gain rewards for staying on top of lea…

The person who wrote that text and the person that coded the website need to get relationship counseling; every page on the website except that paragraph treat competition as one more bad point ok the bad points scale.

Re: Dark Pattern Games

#92

Post by Bratmon »

joaohaas wrote: post #47

Overall it feels like unless your game is a linear single-player game, it will fall under multiple of the site's labelled 'dark patterns'. Here are some really bad ones: Infinite Treadmill - Impossible to win or complete the game. Variable Rewards - Unpredictable or random rewards are more addictive than a predictable schedule. Can't Pause or Save - The game does not allow you to stop playing whenever you want. Grind…

Even linear single-player games will usually hit "Invested / Endowed Value" and "Badges / Endowed Progress"

Re: Dark Pattern Games

#93

Post by Bratmon »

Greed wrote: post #23
efnx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you feel about a free game spending one frame per second mining a cryptocurrency? This would be as an alternative to a one-time purchase (and as an alternative to ads). So, you could play a full game for free, indefinitely, and have a small portion of compute do mining, and at any time you could pay a one time fee (purchase) to turn off mining forever. (Edit: added stuff in parens)

This comment makes me feel so sad. I lack the words to describe what critical essence this question is missing, but technology used to mean a hacker ethos of just doing things because they seemed cool and worth doing and even just the ask of this feels parasitic by comparison. Sign of the times.

I'm gonna drop a sad truth on you: even the greatest hackers of old had to make money somehow.

Re: Dark Pattern Games

#94

Post by rudolftheone »

chriscjcj wrote: post #30

First on the site's list of "Healthy Games" is a game called "Beholder." Description: "You work for a dystopian surveillance state and spy on your neighbors."

Yes! That's the same which caught my eye as well, oh sweet irony! :D Or maybe it's not an irony anymore, rather a shift in societal values ;)

Re: Dark Pattern Games

#96

Post by timeon »

1bpp wrote: post #3
mzajc wrote: post #2

I like the idea, but their ratings seem.. dubious at best. For example: Hyperrogue, which hit the frontpage a few times and which I can confidently say does not feature any dark patterns, is rated just 1.19 [0] on a 5 (best) to -5 (worst) scale. [0] https://www.darkpattern.games/game/18554/0/hyperrogue.html

also funny how those first 3 'dark patterns' are basically just the core appeal of the genre

Not sure what your point is. There is no addiction without appeal.

Re: Dark Pattern Games

#97

Post by teamonkey »

p1necone wrote: post #49
nine_k wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single-player games very much existed before computers: puzzles, solitaires, etc.

See second paragraph. 'Basically all' may have been an exaggeration, but the crux of my argument is that the concept that human beings know as a 'game' up until the advent of computer games more often than not involved competition.

Computers didn’t introduce the notion of solo play and there are examples of games throughout history that are not about competition.

Archery, for example, has its roots in improving your skills for the battlefield. But archery as an hobby, which goes back as long as the bow was invented, is simply for the enjoyment of doing it.

Kids playing together with toys is not a competition. Lego/Meccano/building blocks. The list goes on.

Re: Dark Pattern Games

#98

Post by timeon »

h4ny wrote: post #50

I encourage everyone to read the definition on the home page: > Definition: A gaming dark pattern is something that is deliberately added to a game to cause an unwanted negative experience for the player with a positive outcome for the game developer. And also the detailed descriptions of each of the dark patterns, for example: https://www.darkpattern.games/pattern/12/grinding.html Quoting just the short descriptions…

Some people criticize definition of dark patterns because they can't face their addiction.

Re: Dark Pattern Games

#99

Post by raphael_l »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #85
symbogra wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for doing this! Years of grinding in Diablo 2 and reading about the psychology of intermittent rewards has made me able to see through any game with a grinding mechanic and not play it. So naming and explaining the dark pattern can help.

You mean the new diablo 2 right? I doubt the original Diablo 2 grinding was money-earning focused. I mean the old games (as they appeared to me) were focused on "do it, sell it, make people fall in love with it while we prepare the new game". The new games are more like "make people hooked on it, while we prepare another DLC" - I've never played the new Diablo 2 so I am asking. However I used to grind Diablo 1 (and s…

I’m 90% sure that the “new” (Diablo 2 Resurrected - is this what you’re referring to?) one doesn’t have any monetization. It’s a faithful remake.

Re: Dark Pattern Games

#100

Post by timeon »

thrwaway55 wrote: post #17

This site feels like this it's made by people that misunderstand games and genres and can't stand the concept of live service games which surprise takes money to run. Saw one where powercreep is considered unhealthy ...if you played a competitive card game without power creep you'd quit because the first meta would be the only meta. Controlled power creep is healthy for game longevity.

I would not consider SaaS healthy. When it comes to games it is straight up drug dealing.
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