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A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#91

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

Latty wrote: post #57
ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC has editorial control over their headlines. The wording in the article is unclear and it may not be a mischaracterization. But, assuming that it is, 'someone lied to us and so we put it into our headline' is not a defense that turns bad journalism into good.

It's an obvious quote, unless you think people are going to misunderstand and think that the BBC as a publication is talking about it's mother somehow. Quotes are generally well understood to be the view of the person giving it, not the publication.

I think people are going to expect the BBC to validate the correctness of quotes that they elevate into headlines. The interviewee didn't decide that that quote should be a headline, that's a creative choice by the BBC. By putting it there, they are implying that it is an accurate description of the story that follows. Is that incorrect?

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#92

Post by fhdkweig »

HiPhish wrote: post #82
nekusar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might take a karma hit for this, but whatever. Its the truth. Christians are more concerned about *causing* extreme child abuse, and then turning around and claiming its to "save them", so the abuse isnt reallllly abuse. Most of these camps cited are christian. And the people running them? Dogmatic christian fundamentalists. And these are the same types that run "pray the gay away" camps too. And my inflammatory, alb…

[flagged]

Atheism doesn't turn into worship of anything. That's the point of atheism. It is clear to me that you have never met an atheist.

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#93

Post by Herring »

Jtsummers wrote: post #78
Herring wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you're surprised. This place is primarily about making money. Businesses are set up like tiny little fascist dictatorships. They are always trying to pay less taxes, evade regulations, layoff workers, monopolize, destroy competitors etc. They don't know anything about the public sphere, or common good, or government, or democracy, or rule of law etc. They suck at that, it goes against all their train…

You're not wrong about the strong emphasis on money making and profitability in HN comments (it was started as much as a forum for startup or wannabe startup founders as a tech forum), but it's also had a significant libertarian (little-l) streak. It's kind of hard to square that libertarianism with the apparent support of Franco's regime seen in the comments here today.

Study your history, because that’s an old story. The Puritans who fled England and settled in Massachusetts Bay did not try to establish religious freedom in the modern, pluralistic sense. They just wanted freedom to practice their own religion. They were intolerant of dissent and quickly established their own orthodoxies. Individuals who challenged their religious and civil authority, such as Roger Williams and Anne Hutchinson, were banished. Quakers who arrived later were brutally persecuted, with some being executed.

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#94

Post by GeoAtreides »

lkey wrote: post #70
GeoAtreides wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Gaddafi was not a communist. The Chinese State's actions w.r.t. the Uyghurs in undoubtedly a genocide. The Tankie angle misleading, "Han supremacist" would be more accurate. Calling anyone supporting Franco a 'tankie' is so ahistorical it beggers belief. Please try to understand the words you use, lest you rob them of all meaning. I'd suggest replacing 'tankie' with 'partisan'.

fair enough.

I used it as a synonym for "Westerner (or West resident) supporting authoritarian regimes (of all colors)"

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#95

Post by 7jjjjjjj »

scoofy wrote: post #76
crazygringo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are points on both sides. I think you're right that the BBC is being irresponsible in putting "my mum was a 17-year-old free spirit" in the headline -- even though it's a quote, it does imply a level of BBC editorial agreement with the characterization. It makes her sound like she was just an innocent hippie or something. On the other hand, this wasn't vandalism for vandalism's sake. It was political pr…

Violence isn’t speech. Calling Molotov cocktailing a street “protest” is absurd. It’s effectively armed conflict.

Armed conflict against fascist dictators is a good thing.

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#96

Post by AlexandrB »

_rbxu wrote: post #63
rayiner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, we have a crisis in the U.S. of people sleeping and dying in the streets because we shut down all the mental hospitals and involuntary commitment. Every system will have some percentage of adverse outcomes. Approaching the issue emotionally instead of dispassionately and with a view towards typical outcomes is an anti-social and dangerous approach.

[flagged]

I'm sorry, but you are completely strawmanning the parent. Nothing they said is typical of an "authoritarian lap dog". The point being made is rather modest: that sometimes involuntary commitment is necessary to help someone when their brain is working against them. Obviously this kind of power can be abused, but the current approach leaves those who need that kind of help to fend for themselves.

But I guess involuntary commitment makes people feel icky so fuck those guys, right?

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#97

Post by arp242 »

HiPhish wrote: post #85
lkey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) She was still a child. B) She was imprisoned, repeatedly, and tortured, as the article discusses. C) Is it your opinion that everyone was "lucky" to live in 1968 Spain under Franco. Or just her?

> A) She was still a child. Please don't call a 17-year old person a child. It's not as if on the night between 17 years, 11 months and 30 days, and 18 years humans undergo some sort of metamorphosis.

Yes I agree, which is probably why we should treat 18-year olds more as children than adults (although obviously they are in-between the two). Brains continue to develop to the age of about 25.

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#98

Post by robotshmobot »

HiPhish wrote: post #82
nekusar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might take a karma hit for this, but whatever. Its the truth. Christians are more concerned about *causing* extreme child abuse, and then turning around and claiming its to "save them", so the abuse isnt reallllly abuse. Most of these camps cited are christian. And the people running them? Dogmatic christian fundamentalists. And these are the same types that run "pray the gay away" camps too. And my inflammatory, alb…

[flagged]

The absolute projection of “it’s like this for me therefore it must be true for you” is astounding here

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#99

Post by nekusar »

HiPhish wrote: post #82
nekusar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might take a karma hit for this, but whatever. Its the truth. Christians are more concerned about *causing* extreme child abuse, and then turning around and claiming its to "save them", so the abuse isnt reallllly abuse. Most of these camps cited are christian. And the people running them? Dogmatic christian fundamentalists. And these are the same types that run "pray the gay away" camps too. And my inflammatory, alb…

[flagged]

> Whenever you try to remove religion the void fills up with something, and that something is demonic.

I've heard that exact type of comparison before, and it's from those fundamentalist christians. You find out quickly, that "everything is the devil or demonic" that wasn't written down in a bronze-age book and interpreted and translated the snot out of, over a game of telephone played over 2000 years. Most of which was done by illiterates.

Better yet, lets look at what the opposite of this demonic is - judeo-christian values.

1 Samuel 15:3 "Now go, attack Amalek, and proscribe [kill and dedicate to YHWH] all that belongs to him. Spare no one, but kill alike men and women, infants and sucklings, oxen and sheep, camels and asses!"

That god sounds like a petty tribal warlord. Really? Genocide? Even kill the infants and animals?!? And this is what's being accepted as good and holy? And when Saul (king) spared the Amalekite king and some animals, even that benevolence was rewarded with destroying Saul.

Petty. Tribal. Warlord.

And yeah, I've actually read the Torah and New Testament and Koran. I know what I disagree in, and I see how our culture are still afflicted by all this historical religious baggage.

Re: A new documentary about the history of forced psychiatric treatment in Spain

#100

Post by crazygringo »

scoofy wrote: post #76
crazygringo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are points on both sides. I think you're right that the BBC is being irresponsible in putting "my mum was a 17-year-old free spirit" in the headline -- even though it's a quote, it does imply a level of BBC editorial agreement with the characterization. It makes her sound like she was just an innocent hippie or something. On the other hand, this wasn't vandalism for vandalism's sake. It was political pr…

Violence isn’t speech. Calling Molotov cocktailing a street “protest” is absurd. It’s effectively armed conflict.

Where did I say anything about speech? Were you under the impression that protests are inherently non-violent? Violent protests are absolutely a thing. That's why "non-violent protest" is a term.

And of course it's armed conflict. But the point is that it's armed conflict against a fascist dictatorship killing over 100,000 civilians by most estimates -- which is what makes it considered legitimate violent protest by many people.

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