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FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

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Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#91

Post by elgertam »

CSMastermind wrote: post #85
KaiserPro wrote: post #59

Yes polygraphs are bollocks, but, rules are rules. The issue is, if exceptions are made, what's stopping other breaking the rules? I don't care if he's a dem, rep or maga, rules are rules.

When I was in college they did an audit to see if I could graduate and it was flagged that I had been allowed to skip the Introduction to Computer Science class because I got a 5 on the AP Comp Sci test. The problem was that I took the test while it was administered in C++ and it had later switched to Java. The school decided they were not going to recognize the test results and instead would only credit me with an e…

But the "rule" in this case is that political appointees can have the polygraph waived at some senior leader's discretion, up to the president.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#92

Post by pdonis »

moron4hire wrote: post #36
bediger4000 wrote: post #2

the FBI’s employment eligibility guidelines say all employees must obtain a “Top Secret” clearance in order to work at the agency following a background check. The furor here is about Dan Bongino, and Nicole Rucker, Kash Patel's assitant The article goes on to say that FBI employees at the level Bongino and Rucker are working at have "SCI" clearance on top of Top Secret. Back in the 1990s, it was exceptionally diffic…

I think this is a misunderstanding a lot of people have about clearance. The different clearance levels are not really an indication of different levels of vetting being done to a person. If you can get cleared for Secret, there's no particular reason you couldn't get cleared for TS. It's the same SF-86 form, the same investigation (well, not that I know, exactly. All I know is that it didn't look any different from…

> these people can't pass TS

Where does it say that?

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#93

Post by moron4hire »

pdonis wrote: post #92
moron4hire wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a misunderstanding a lot of people have about clearance. The different clearance levels are not really an indication of different levels of vetting being done to a person. If you can get cleared for Secret, there's no particular reason you couldn't get cleared for TS. It's the same SF-86 form, the same investigation (well, not that I know, exactly. All I know is that it didn't look any different from…

> these people can't pass TS Where does it say that?

Why would they need a waiver?

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#94

Post by saghm »

puppycodes wrote: post #26

The only way polygraphs work is by convincing people its an actual lie detection machine. Cops leveredge this belief and tell you that you "failed miserably" so you ultimately confess because "your caught". They are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

Sure, but that's an argument against them ever being used in the screening process they use for people joining, not to only exempt specific high-level appointees.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#95

Post by dmix »

bediger4000 wrote: post #2

the FBI’s employment eligibility guidelines say all employees must obtain a “Top Secret” clearance in order to work at the agency following a background check. The furor here is about Dan Bongino, and Nicole Rucker, Kash Patel's assitant The article goes on to say that FBI employees at the level Bongino and Rucker are working at have "SCI" clearance on top of Top Secret. Back in the 1990s, it was exceptionally diffic…

> getting this kind of special treatment really does reinforce a big difference between classes

The Trump admin has always been an example of ignoring the elite political class and bringing in whoever he likes. Kash Patel himself came from a family of asylum seekers who fled India and he got his start as a public defender. Not exactly old money.

The guy he brought on as an assistant (without a polygraph) got his start as a beat cop from NYPD before joining the Secret Service.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#96

Post by XorNot »

puppycodes wrote: post #26

The only way polygraphs work is by convincing people its an actual lie detection machine. Cops leveredge this belief and tell you that you "failed miserably" so you ultimately confess because "your caught". They are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

Which is a distraction from the fact that taking one is part of the process, and for no reason senior appointees have been exempted.

It would be a different matter if the entire process was being removed as policy, but nope, that's not it.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#97

Post by gishh »

KaiserPro wrote: post #58
gishh wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Back in the 1990s, it was exceptionally difficult to get TS clearance. SCI on top of that must have been even harder. Not really. I know a litany of people who had TS/SCI clearances in the 90s. It was literally a job requirement for entire divisions of the US govt.

According to this: https://news.clearancejobs.com/2022/08/16/how-many-people-ha... The number of poepl that hold top secret clearance (assuming its the same thing...) is 1.3mil

Given the firings/retirement of a bunch of govt employees recently, it’s probably still higher than 1.3 million.

Most people just back into a clearance without realizing they need one, and bounce right through the process.

If you haven’t been convicted of a felony it’s basically falling-off-a-log easy to get cleared. The whole process is a charade.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#98

Post by sillystuff »

puppycodes wrote: post #26

The only way polygraphs work is by convincing people its an actual lie detection machine. Cops leveredge this belief and tell you that you "failed miserably" so you ultimately confess because "your caught". They are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

> They are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

They are actually worse than a coin toss.

The TV news show, "60 Minutes" tested several companies that provided polygraph testing services.

The show claimed some one stole some equipment. For each testing service the show said they suspected a different employee. In every case, the polygraph operator claimed they detected deception in the person they had been told by the show was the person already under suspicion. Polygraph is total bullshit, just used to add a pseudo-scientific shine to prejudice.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#99

Post by ProjectArcturis »

CSMastermind wrote: post #85
KaiserPro wrote: post #59

Yes polygraphs are bollocks, but, rules are rules. The issue is, if exceptions are made, what's stopping other breaking the rules? I don't care if he's a dem, rep or maga, rules are rules.

When I was in college they did an audit to see if I could graduate and it was flagged that I had been allowed to skip the Introduction to Computer Science class because I got a 5 on the AP Comp Sci test. The problem was that I took the test while it was administered in C++ and it had later switched to Java. The school decided they were not going to recognize the test results and instead would only credit me with an e…

I would have lawyered up. But the experience seems to have turned you into a mindless rule follower.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#100

Post by YZF »

bigyabai wrote: post #46
YZF wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to note that the scandal going on in Israel wrt/ the chief prosecutor of the IDF leaking a prisoner abuse video was uncovered in a polygraph test. "A routine Shin Bet polygraph test of a senior officer close to Military Advocate General reportedly exposed new clues about video leak, prompting Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara to order a full criminal investigation" https://www.ynetnews.com/article/…

That's a very peculiar non-sequitur to pick. Plus, finding "clues" could mean anything, including false leads. If the Shin Bet is resorting to interviews under duress, they really must not have much physical evidence to work with.

This is standard procedure for everyone in certain roles. Presumably for the same reasons the FBI does this.
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