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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

seattletimes.com

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Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#91

Post by rat87 »

ls612 wrote: post #29
willk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy that for a second. Governments always want more control, and this is just another way for them to get it.

But the sorts of ICE actions that are causing this controversy only have political support because the US immigration laws have been flouted for 30+ years. Regardless of what you or I think of it it’s the reality that lots of the electorate wants deportations and lots of them and that likely isn’t true in a world where the laws on the books were more strictly enforced in the past.

They don't have majority political support. Even many Trump voters are against it. Also Trump has repeatedly violated immigration law, hell Trump tower wouldn't exist without the work of unauthorized Polish workers

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#93

Post by dwattttt »

QuantumFunnel wrote: post #81
estearum wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand the logic of "there are some crime problems we're willing to accept more intrusions to solve than other crime problems?" Seems like something virtually everyone believes, and all that changes is where they draw the line of balance between intrusion and safety.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

"Those (the Penn family) who would give up essential Liberty (money & power), to purchase a little temporary Safety (a veto over a taxation dispute, trying to raise money from the Penn family), deserve neither Liberty (said money & power) nor Safety (the defense that said taxed money would've bought from the present French & Indian wars)"

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#94

Post by notepad0x90 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #85
notepad0x90 wrote: post #36

[flagged]

> No matter what, the whole ICE acting like the SS thing will only result in more illegal migration in the long term, like a lot more. I don't follow. Illegal immigration into the US is down right now. So, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

It's a pendulum, the next administration will react in the other direction, possibly very dramatically.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#95

Post by sleepybrett »

gwbas1c wrote: post #85
notepad0x90 wrote: post #36

[flagged]

> No matter what, the whole ICE acting like the SS thing will only result in more illegal migration in the long term, like a lot more. I don't follow. Illegal immigration into the US is down right now. So, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Because the blowback on ICE's current 'posture' is going to gut that agency.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#96

Post by notepad0x90 »

Izikiel43 wrote: post #70
notepad0x90 wrote: post #36

[flagged]

> will only result in more illegal migration in the long term Why? Wouldn't it disincentivize illegal immigration by making it much more riskier? Agreed that the legal immigration system needs an overhaul, these are a lot of people living in limbo, paying taxes and not causing crimes with very few rights. The term no taxation without representation was the reason the USA got founded.

It's a temporary partisan solution, the other party will do the opposite, reducing enforcement and letting even more illegal migrants in, lest they be accused of being a xenophobe.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#97

Post by defrost »

ls612 wrote: post #37
uoaei wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red herring. Political support is due to mass media narrative campaigns, in this day and age groundswell politics is simply infeasible with the power that narrative has in today's culture.

Political support is due to people voting for it, and in the US system that is the arbiter of who will get to enact their policies.

This is true.

Hence the importance of controlling the narrative by spinning unchecked stories about immigrants eating cats, disproportionate rates of murder and crime, ignoring revenue from immigrants paying taxes, etc.

The fact that sufficient people will vote on immigration as an issue is orthogonal to the realities of laws and enforcement rates and entirely predicated upon perception of such issues.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#98

Post by dylan604 »

cipehr wrote: post #83
dylan604 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question here is if a public/government agency pays a private company to setup cameras in public, for the benefit of the public, then should that data collected by those cameras not also be public? This is how NASA operates with the data/images collected from the tax payer funded operations it runs. There is a period of exclusivity allowed for some projects to allow the people to work with the data, but anybody…

Awesome, thank you for the input. I suspected NASA was operating this way, but I had no idea there was a period of exclusivity. In the case of NASA, the private companies are those like JPL and the sorts I guess? I assume it is/was similar with other data collected, like weather data/radar, oceanic current/buoy data, etc?

I read about this regarding Hubble imagery, but pretty sure it applies to all missions funded by tax payers. The teams requesting time from the platforms are granted exclusive time to work out what they need so they can publish their papers for credit and what not.

One of the great things here is that most of the teams are so focused on their specific criteria in the data, they sort of lose the forest in the tree. Once that data has been released to the public, more and more interesting things are being found in the existing data rather than requiring new observations. It's space, so most things only need to be imaged once per sensor. It's not like setting up a trap camera hoping to see big foot the one time he strolls past. The universe changes on a much slower scale so the data is still relevant for much longer.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#99

Post by notyourwork »

Tadpole9181 wrote: post #84
karmakaze wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that there is no actual line. There's the premise which then collects the data. Then the data can be used for other purposes--no line prevents this.

Weird. There's an article right here showing them turning off the cameras when the line was crossed and now that data can't be used the way they don't want. So clearly we're allowed more nuanced takes than you think.

Reactivity isn’t proactively protecting what you belief. It’s reacting to public outcry for the original premise.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#100

Post by notepad0x90 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #42
notepad0x90 wrote: post #36

[flagged]

> No matter what, the whole ICE acting like the SS thing will only result in more illegal migration in the long term, like a lot more. How so? What mechanism do you see that goes from "ICE acting like the SS" to "a lot more illegal migration in the long term"? What's the cause and effect here? Not saying you're wrong, necessarily, just... I don't see the causality at all.

What was the reaction to SS? or to stick to my DEA example, what was the result of the war on drugs? millions and millions dead because of drug related causes right? how do you think the nation will react to ICE's brutal and cruel, even illegal operations? many would consider them heroes, but the other side will consider them no different than the SS or gestapo, the only correction is to wind down immigration enforcement dramatically, increasing immigration.

Imagine a democrat administration simply reverting ICE to its pre-2025 state. the implication alone and the perception it gives will drive up illegal immigration. "america is open again".

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