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Study finds memory decline surge in young people

onepercentrule.substack.com

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Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#91

Post by tharne »

testing22321 wrote: post #81
apexalpha wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you not have extended family or friends in your daily social setting? Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable here, unless you live a very solitary life.

I also have no phone. I have tons of friends and a very active social life - in person. I bump into friends in town, at the ski hill, at the bar and grocery store. I ask people for the time, directions and how their day is going. I’ll never have a phone.

I very rarely find myself being sincerely jealous of others, but man does your life sound amazing.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#92

Post by SoftTalker »

doubled112 wrote: post #77
autoexec wrote: post #7

> Those 4.5 million survey responses were gathered over a decade I'd feel more confident about the results of this research if it didn't entirely depend on self-reported data from a survey. At least in this case it was a phone survey and not just an internet questionnaire posted to social media sites. I'd put more faith in a much smaller sample of young people being professionally evaluated for memory problems. The s…

> diagnosed with it by a professional Honestly, I wouldn't be sure how to answer some of the questions. In a 15 minute doctor's appointment I was "diagnosed" and medicated for bipolar. In another 15 minute appointment with a psychiatrist, we added OCD and general anxiety as well. We stopped medications shortly after and it has been 20 years. There has been a lot of discussion about self diagnosis, but I have the oppo…

Modern medicine has no incentive to diagnose you. Their incentives are to get you in and out as quickly as possible, get you on a recurring prescription, and schedule the next followup visit. And to do this for as many people as possible. As long as they don't accidentally kill you, they profit.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#93

Post by rpdillon »

kcaj wrote: post #33

The dismissal in these comments is astonishing.

I was ready to dismiss the article on the basis of its sensationalist writing, but I wanted to dig into the study as well. After reading through it, I asked my wife, who's a sociologist and researcher, what she thought about these conclusions based on the survey data. She said that collecting survey results in this kind of longitudinal study is considered a valid source of data about trends like this, but she said the obvious caveat is that you can't determine causation or what the practical impact is. The article does not hesitate to state hypothesis as fact, which is probably where the dismissals are coming from.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#94

Post by lrvick »

Gooblebrai wrote: post #76
lrvick wrote: post #64

Since giving up my cell phone entirely over 5 years ago, my productivity, memory, and overall happiness are at the highest levels they have ever been, in my late 30s. I no longer apologize to anyone for this lifestyle choice anymore since the benefits are something everyone deserves, but almost all opt out of today for made up reasons. I take photos with a pocket mirrorless, and take notes with a notebook. I tell tim…

> I pay for things at stores with cash instead of tap to pay Good luck living in London with cash. I guess a plastic credit cards is allowed

I use cash all the time all over the world. I do sometimes have to walk out of a restaurant that refuses cash to find one that accepts it, but that sort of thing is memorable and often changes behavior in those businesses. Companies hate losing customers for easily fixable things like that.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#95

Post by tharne »

lrvick wrote: post #89
rpdillon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is already fairly sensationalist in its conclusions and language, but avoiding tap-to-pay because you don't have a phone is a non-sequitur; debit and credit cards support tap to pay just fine. Similarly with folks saying they don't carry a phone so they ask others for the time. One option is to wear a watch.

When you use tap to pay, you are sending information about your purchases and location to dozens of ad tech companies, and are still participating in the very surveillance capitalism that makes everyone stupider for money. I also pay with cash for privacy, and to use my privilege to constantly demand it as an option so the unbanked who cannot advocate for themselves can still participate in society.

> I also pay with cash for privacy, and to use my privilege to constantly demand it as an option so the unbanked who cannot advocate for themselves can still participate in society.

Good for you! I so wish more people would think and act this way. Most people don't realize that in a world without cash, government and large businesses can shutdown your entire with the push of a button without any sort of due process.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#96

Post by cenamus »

crims0n wrote: post #75
lrvick wrote: post #64

Since giving up my cell phone entirely over 5 years ago, my productivity, memory, and overall happiness are at the highest levels they have ever been, in my late 30s. I no longer apologize to anyone for this lifestyle choice anymore since the benefits are something everyone deserves, but almost all opt out of today for made up reasons. I take photos with a pocket mirrorless, and take notes with a notebook. I tell tim…

I love the sentiment, but some of us need to be reachable for work. I wonder if PagerDuty could be rigged up to work with actual pagers?

Android profiles with just the the pager stuff installed/enabled would probably work?

And a long/annoying password for the "main" profile, with banking and all the other stuff maybe

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#97

Post by cenamus »

verbify wrote: post #2

I'm not sure it's social media as much as just mobile phones. I used to memorize phone numbers, addresses, directions, short notes, etc. Memory works like a muscle - use it or lose it.

Gwern's writing on working memory might also interest you

https://gwern.net/dnb-faq

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#98

Post by tharne »

w10-1 wrote: post #23
autoexec wrote: post #7

> Those 4.5 million survey responses were gathered over a decade I'd feel more confident about the results of this research if it didn't entirely depend on self-reported data from a survey. At least in this case it was a phone survey and not just an internet questionnaire posted to social media sites. I'd put more faith in a much smaller sample of young people being professionally evaluated for memory problems. The s…

With rising ADHD awareness and corresponding academic waivers and medications used to enhance academic performance, I'm surprised the results are not much higher among students. I'm disappointed the paper failed to address the limitations of the study. Note that the effect was stronger with wealth, as expected for performance- and excuse-seeking behaviors in high-achieving households.

I'm starting to think ADHD is isn't a disorder at all. It's like obesity, if something afflicts 2% of the population, it's an individual disorder or issue. If it afflicts 20%+ of the population, it's either a systems/societal issue, or even more likely, a common personality trait that just happens to be very undesirable at this particular moment in time.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#99

Post by rpdillon »

lrvick wrote: post #87
rpdillon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whenever I see parents scrolling, and handing a kid a phone as well to pacify them, I wish I could report them for child abuse. Consider that you might not have everything figured out for everyone. I'm glad you found something that works, but the will to impose your way on others isn't benevolent.

Many parents used to drink while pregnant and put whiskey in the baby bottle to make kid shut up. We should make decisions based on research, not by emulating other badly informed parents, even if they are the majority.

The study does not point to a cause. The comment I'm responding to is drawing conclusions based on a sensationalist blog post and then wishing they could report other parents for abuse. I think the study is well done, but we can't scientifically draw the conclusions from it that the author (and folks in this thread) are drawing.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#100

Post by lrvick »

apexalpha wrote: post #85
blueflow wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable here, unless you live a very solitary life Except when you are offline together .

Yes, but unfortunately my kids’ daycare, school, other parents, my job don’t want to.

If you wanted to be vegan as a personal choice and everyone in your life wanted you to eat meat anyway, who cares? No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt.

You can get landlines (via a VOIP conversion box or otherwise), and beyond that what do you really need if you are honest?

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