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Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

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Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#91

Post by immibis »

blueboo wrote: post #64
ethin wrote: post #62

IMO a company should lose all control over technology once you've purchased it. Doesn't matter if it's "smart" or not. If the company wants to do something like telemetry, they can buy a license from you for that data. See how they like it when the tables are flipped.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!) I don't like it either but here we are

They should be forced to present both options, and the price difference must equal the revenue they actually make from spying.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#92

Post by Tade0 »

blueboo wrote: post #64
ethin wrote: post #62

IMO a company should lose all control over technology once you've purchased it. Doesn't matter if it's "smart" or not. If the company wants to do something like telemetry, they can buy a license from you for that data. See how they like it when the tables are flipped.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!) I don't like it either but here we are

Then I invite them to offer such a product. I would love to buy e.g. YouTube premium, but as far as I know they still collect my data for advertising purposes, they just don't show the ads.

I want to buy privacy, but it's not offered.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#94

Post by goku12 »

userbinator wrote: post #66

First of all, it's Android Debug Bridge, which gives him full root access to the vacuum, wasn't protected by any kind of password or encryption. Good. You bought it, you own it. (I have no skin in this game --- my vacuum is as dumb as they come, and can be fixed with basic machine shop tools.)

> (I have no skin in this game --- my vacuum is as dumb as they come, and can be fixed with basic machine shop tools.)

The real question is, is that still an option? If it is, then for how long? Sadly, there are several other product lines that have entirely crossed that line a while ago.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#95

Post by koyote »

SoftTalker wrote: post #61
StarGrit wrote: post #55

Whenever I read about robovac. I wonder gow good are these robot vacs really? Maybe it is just me, but surely would be less effort to hire a cleaner and they can do more than just vacuuming.

I think it’s one of the most idiotic devices anyone could own. Buy a normal vacuum cleaner for half the price, spend 10 minutes a week vacuuming your apartment, and you won’t come home and find that your cleaning robot spent the afternoon choking on a shoelace.

> Buy a normal vacuum cleaner for half the price, spend 10 minutes a week vacuuming your apartment

You obviously don't have a pet or a baby.

Make that 15 minutes of vacuuming AND mopping 3 times a day for a baby. Suddenly it seems very attractive to have a clean house while not having to find the time during the baby's sleep and nap time to do it manually.

You could argue the same for a dishwasher: I used to only use a single fork, glass and pot (eat out of the pot). A dishwasher seemed like the most idiotic device anyone could own if that's all you need to rinse every day. Until of course you add more people to that equation...(and maybe cook more than just pasta)

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#96

Post by goku12 »

brenainn wrote: post #41

A good time to point out https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo . I haven't tried it personally because my particular model of vacuum has some complicated and potentially destructive procedure to get the required access, but there's quite a few models where it can be installed easily.

> ... because my particular model of vacuum has some complicated and potentially destructive procedure to get the required access

This right there is the root of the entire problem. We had IBM PC clones that you could recover and keep running for decades by easily replacing expansion cards, HDDs, RAM sticks, peripherals and even circuit components like caps, ICs and batteries. We used to partition our 50 GB HDD into a dozen little partitions and multiboot every conceivable OS out there. Now we have an oligarchic dystopia where even RAMs and batteries are soldered on and bonded with single-use resins instead of age-old screws. Even if you get through, you can't salvage or swap ICs because they're paired individually at device level. You can't reach the boot partition without a Ph.D in RevEng and a risk of still bricking the device 3 out of 4 times. And that's all for technological progress and security, they say! Those claims have as much credibility as their claims to making an honest living. It's weasel-speak, not engineering insight.

Modifying the device that you paid for should never be this complicated. Those greedy corpos are usurping the consumer's rights and wealth, plain and simple.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#97

Post by goku12 »

sema4hacker wrote: post #4

I wish I had the abilities of the engineer, plus the time he could devote to the problem.

> I wish I had the abilities of the engineer, plus the time he could devote to the problem.

Ability is a matter of patience and persistence. And both are the results of motivation. Anyone can learn anything as long as they really want it. (barring disabilities like depression that destroy motivation. But some people use even that as an opportunity to learn new skills that in turn help them recover.) But Time is an entirely different matter. You can find time if you really want to, but life has other priorities too - including time doing nothing (rest). Finding the extra time in between all that will depend on your craftiness. That's the true skill here.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#98

Post by close04 »

charcircuit wrote: post #15

I suspect this is not the full story. Why would someone waste their time manually disabling a device? That makes me think that this device was doing something malicous to their servers, enough to trip an alert.

To "encourage" the owner to re-enable the connectivity. Google threatens to ban your Youtube account if you block ads. Companies will go out of their way to nudge, push, or force you to keep the data collection (or ads) gravy train going.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#99

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

0xffff2 wrote: post #67
blueboo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!) I don't like it either but here we are

Sure, that's basically how Kindle pricing works ($X with ads, or $X+$Y without ads) and it's infinitely better having the choice. If Amazon ever gets rid of the without ad version they will lose me as a customer overnight. Likewise, there are a whole lot of products that don't have an "unsubsidized" version that I simply refuse to purchase (or have purchased and returned after confirming that they will not work when…

> If Amazon ever gets rid of the without ad version they will lose me as a customer overnight.

A couple of years ago, I subscribed to Peacock Premium (or whatever it was called). The selling point was access to all their library.

At that time, it was ad-free.

It is now packed with ads, and they want me to upgrade to “Peacock Squeal Like A Pig,” or whatever they call it.

Instead, I just canceled my subscription, and avoid any Peacock stuff, which isn’t difficult. They don’t have much I want to see.

I have a friend who pirates everything. I have always believed in paying for my media, but it’s become such a clusterfuck, that I can sympathize.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#100

Post by goku12 »

fron wrote: post #45
bitwize wrote: post #29

Probably a felony under the DMCA. I'm reminded of when AWS us-east-1 went down and all the beds made by EightSleep (business model: Juicero for beds) became disabled. EightSleep put all the significant control for their beds in the cloud, doubtless because they couldn't or didn't know how to hire embedded engineers, and the only devs they could find were node.js flunkies who only knew how to do cloud. Looks like the…

"Never attribute to incompetence that which can be attributed to malice" or something. Clearly automatic beds have some degree of embedded software. The decision to put the controls in the cloud was certainly a conscious one.

> "Never attribute to incompetence that which can be attributed to malice" or something.

Isn't that the inverse of the Hanlon's razor? But I agree - the Occam's razor says that the inverse Hanlon's razor is most likely the case here.

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