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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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91–100 of 907 posts

Re: Keep Android Open

#91

Post by vanviegen »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #12
neilv wrote: post #7

No matter how this turns out, I'm sure GrapheneOS will make a smart effort. https://grapheneos.org/ But long-term, Android is such a massive code base, and was designed more for surveillance and consumption, than for privacy&security and the user's interests. I think getting mainline Linux on viable and sustainable on multiple hardware devices is warmer, fuzzier foundation. (Sort of a cross between Purism's work on t…

The problem is for developers. Abandoning Android for Linux is not viable for software developers who need to eat. Sure, we can use Linux smartphones ourselves, but if the software we make has a grand total of three people who ever lay eyes on it, that's less than ideal. And given how The Year of the Linux Desktop has gone, I think it'd be strongly preferable if we managed to stave off the tightening of control over…

I know it's been tried before (eg by Mozilla), but perhaps now the time is right for a web apps-only OS.

Many developers would need some help to get offline functionality and updates right though.. And it would be really nice if these apps didn't require parsing megabytes of JavaScript libraries on startup.

One can dream! :-)

Re: Keep Android Open

#92

Post by heavyset_go »

maxloh wrote: post #46
codedokode wrote: post #29

Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). So if you buy a device with CPU and writabl…

Most vendors (at some level) allow flashing custom distributions, as long as you didn't buy that device from carrier: https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame... You will lose DRM-based apps (e.g. Netflix), Payment apps, and bank apps though.

Even phones from Motorola require you to literally ask permission to unlock your bootloader via a form on their website, which they then unlock remotely or you enter some generated code.

Other manufacturers do the same, where you have to wait a period of like 45 days before being able to unlock, and then have to ask permission on their website to unlock your bootloader.

Re: Keep Android Open

#93

Post by skylurk »

frankacter wrote: post #83
jeena wrote: post #58

Back in the 2007 or when it came out in Sweden I bought the iPhone and started developing for it. This was cool, new and exciting and it was fine as long as my company was paying the $100 fee every year. But then I switched jobs and worked at a company which produced mostly open source code. Suddenly I would have to pay $100 every year just to be able to put my own software on the phone ... This is why I switched to…

>This is why I switched to Android, just for Google now to pull the rug from under my feet again 1) You can continue to install unsigned APKs via adb with the upcoming update. 2) Signing APKs for sideloading requires a Google development account which is a one time fee of $25, no yearly fees. So still a free sideloading option available, and if you want to avoid adb it is a one time cost that is 1/4 the annual rate o…

First they came for F-droid...

Re: Keep Android Open

#94

Post by numpad0 »

userbinator wrote: post #11
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works now, but good luck in 10 years time when the radio chip requires a digital signature from the host OS signed by google or apple and your current phone is deprecated by 6g or whatever.

when the radio chip requires a digital signature from the host OS signed by google or apple China will never let that happen.

Google, Apple, or CCP. Problem solved.

I mean, the actual implementation will be that CCP signs Google DragonFly Global Root CA cert, and Apple runs Google signed firmware, but those are just minor implementation details.

Re: Keep Android Open

#95

Post by thastings »

codedokode wrote: post #29

Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). So if you buy a device with CPU and writabl…

Droidian[0] currently supports a relatively new Motorola phone[1]. A Snapdragon 8+ gen 1 device, so the performance isn't bad, and most features seem to work, including Waydroid. I've noticed incoming phone calls causing a glitch where the call can't be answered, but other than that, daily drivable. Just like a PinePhone, only more powerful. In my region it can be had for ~€250 brand new.

[0] https://droidian.org/ [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPhone-by-Motorola-...

Re: Keep Android Open

#96

Post by safety1st »

maxloh wrote: post #46
codedokode wrote: post #29

Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). So if you buy a device with CPU and writabl…

Most vendors (at some level) allow flashing custom distributions, as long as you didn't buy that device from carrier: https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame... You will lose DRM-based apps (e.g. Netflix), Payment apps, and bank apps though.

This is the place where I think lawmakers needs to be involved. Bearing in mind that laws aren't engineering specs, being able to pay for things and use a bank are about as close to fundamental rights as anything is for participants in society. If you have to buy a second device to use Netflix, so be it, but we need laws that guarantee people can make digital payments without Apple or Google's permission.

There are societies today (I live in one) where some businesses are starting to accept payment only through a banking or payment app, no cash, no card, nothing else. And these apps will only function in the very narrow circumstances of "I bought a device which runs software from one of two American tech monopolies and follow all their frequently changing rules for using various software that's unrelated to the payment I need to make." This limitation is mostly in place due to the banks believing it will make things more secure. Security is important, but not important enough that you get to start denying innocent people the ability to make payments or exile them from the banking system because they had some kind of dispute with Apple or Google. Governments need to step in with access mandates here, otherwise this problem WILL come to a jurisdiction near you sooner or later.

Re: Keep Android Open

#97

Post by microtonal »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #37
anonymous908213 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is for developers. Abandoning Android for Linux is not viable for software developers who need to eat. Sure, we can use Linux smartphones ourselves, but if the software we make has a grand total of three people who ever lay eyes on it, that's less than ideal. And given how The Year of the Linux Desktop has gone, I think it'd be strongly preferable if we managed to stave off the tightening of control over…

> Abandoning Android for Linux is not viable for software developers who need to eat. We'll finally get our ecosystem diversity back when the next geopolitical happening happens and Google bans Chinese android apps on bullshit pretexts. Wait a few years more.

I'd rather like to see AOSP development spun off to a separate non-profit entity. Either by Google doing it or by a hard fork (which will need a lot of funding). Traditional Linux misses the polish and especially the security layering to be a good phone OS. Better to start from an already good base that works.

Re: Keep Android Open

#98

Post by fainpul »

frankacter wrote: post #83
jeena wrote: post #58

Back in the 2007 or when it came out in Sweden I bought the iPhone and started developing for it. This was cool, new and exciting and it was fine as long as my company was paying the $100 fee every year. But then I switched jobs and worked at a company which produced mostly open source code. Suddenly I would have to pay $100 every year just to be able to put my own software on the phone ... This is why I switched to…

>This is why I switched to Android, just for Google now to pull the rug from under my feet again 1) You can continue to install unsigned APKs via adb with the upcoming update. 2) Signing APKs for sideloading requires a Google development account which is a one time fee of $25, no yearly fees. So still a free sideloading option available, and if you want to avoid adb it is a one time cost that is 1/4 the annual rate o…

I would call it "free developer experience" (using ADB), not "free sideloading".

If you want to send your app to a friend to download and install it directly on their phone (without using a computer with ADB), you need to be Google-approved and register your app first.

Re: Keep Android Open

#99

Post by 28304283409234 »

I just bought a fairphone6 hoping this phone would last me a decade with security patches and lineageos support. Naively I was assuming Google would keep Android open for that period. Now I might as well switch to Apple so I'm in sync with the rest of my family. Ugh.
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