Meeting A Troll • Hacker News Board

Re: Meeting A Troll

#91

Post by minitrollster » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:06 AM UTC

yelsgib wrote: post #90

akldfgj wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You credibly describe the flaws of the prison system, but you don't offer any alternatives. Frankly, given the choice of a rock and a hard place, it is better to have a criminal in jail half his life and terrorizing society half his life, then terrorizing society for his entire life. We aren't looking at Jean Valjeans here.

In my opinion, to situate this conversation in a framework where "alternatives" are to be considered is to already assume an authoritarian stance. I believe that the model you are assuming is one in which there is some sort of established "government" which selects among alternative systems sharing the property that they are maintained by varying degrees of implicit/explicit use of force. I would never claim to know…

After reading this, I can only say one thing: you're living in fantasyland. This is the real world, not some libertarian utopia. And regarding your last point, what about pedophiles? Rapists? Should we just surround them with love and forgiveness?

Re: Meeting A Troll

#92

Post by freework » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:14 AM UTC

Theres something about this story that just doesn't sit right with me. Why would a 17 year old go through so much trouble to harass someone just for the heck of it? The guy had to have done something to the kid. Normal people don't spend hours of their lives to harass a single person for no reason.

I call bullshit.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#93

Post by yelsgib » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:15 AM UTC

minitrollster wrote: post #88

yelsgib wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate that you have such strong authoritarian beliefs. Can I convince you that your ideas that criminals (this child is 17 - he has not, by our own state's very definition - attained an age where he can be defined as a criminal or where he can knowingly enter into the social moral contract that binds adults) "need to be taught that their behavior is unacceptable" is a very modern one and - what's more - on…

Here's the thing: actions have consequences. Bad actions result in bad consequences. Such is the learning process of lots of species. Do you think training pets by reinforcing good behaviour and punishing bad behaviour is modern and supported by "state propaganda", whatever that means? I do believe that prison systems can be good at rehabilitation. Maybe not in the US, where you seem to be from, but it's working in m…

Who do you trust to administer punishment?

What did they do to earn that trust?

The concept that one class of humans is the "punishers" who are teaching the other class(es) underlies most (if not all) fascist/authoritarian/racist ideologies of the last 3 centuries.

Of course you don't see what's wrong with punishing behavior that has been deemed unacceptable by society. Unfortunately, behavior that society is largely OK with (e.g. drug use) is punished nontheless - unfortunately, society can (and has often been) quite wrong about what should be punished (homosexuality, female sexuality, prostitution, sexual "perversion," drug & alcohol use, to name a few).

The fact is that the kid involved in this story didn't do anything "wrong" that could be easily trained out of him. Probably he has a whole set of complicated complexes of problems. For instance, one thing that many people in the US and UK (and other places) seem to suffer from is sexual/touch deprivation. Maybe if the kid were getting laid instead of playing on his laptop he wouldn't have engaged in such weirdo behaviors. I'm just sayin' - legalize drugs and prostitution and 99% of these problems go away.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#94

Post by lallysingh » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:16 AM UTC

ignignokt wrote: post #86

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope the OP didn't just leave it with "get him counseling" and then walk away. I hope he required follow-up that the counseling was happening and progress was being made. In fact, if I was in that situation, I think I would want to be given the ability to talk to the counselor about the progress (or lack thereof) being made. Even if I knew he was going to counseling, I don't think I would be comfortable just…

Isn't that sort of information confidential between the counsellor and the patient? Even if it's not legally protected I don't think many counsellors would be happy telling you that sort of thing

You can always ask for copies of the bill.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#95

Post by bau5 » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:21 AM UTC

citricsquid wrote: post #36

zxcdw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you define trolling and a troll? I'm sincerely asking since it is my understanding that these days harassment over the internet is often cited as trolling, as in for example "We trolled Jane by spamming her inbox full of animal abuse and violence lol". I work part-time at a school with kids ranging from 7 to 16, and of what I've tried to inquire them about the subject(I'm 22 myself, so it's quite easy to go…

Trolling is short term, it's fucking with someone for the sake of fucking with someone , anyone. If you attack one person over multiple years that becomes more than trolling, it becomes personal. Trolling is not personal. As you say, it's "for the lulz", it's to get a reaction, any reaction. If someone wants a reaction they don't care who from. I've never met anyone that would call years of harassment that extended i…

Good definition of trolling. I have but one thing to add to it.

Trolling is a art.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#96

Post by yelsgib » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:23 AM UTC

minitrollster wrote: post #91

yelsgib wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, to situate this conversation in a framework where "alternatives" are to be considered is to already assume an authoritarian stance. I believe that the model you are assuming is one in which there is some sort of established "government" which selects among alternative systems sharing the property that they are maintained by varying degrees of implicit/explicit use of force. I would never claim to know…

After reading this, I can only say one thing: you're living in fantasyland. This is the real world, not some libertarian utopia. And regarding your last point, what about pedophiles? Rapists? Should we just surround them with love and forgiveness?

Yes, I believe we should surround them with love and forgiveness.

We also should -have- provided them with love and forgiveness so that they would feel comfortable talking about their problems before they could result in severe issues.

What do -you- suggest we do? Beat them up? "Teach them a lesson?" What will that accomplish, exactly?

---

Let me just say that I sense a great deal of pain in you. This is not an attack. Your points seem to be based in fear and anger - you are being very reactive rather than clearly laying out a well-reasoned argument. E.g. contrast your response to my own - yours relies on ad hominem and caricature and then finally a straw man argument. You seem sad. I hope you're OK. Hope!

Re: Meeting A Troll

#97

Post by ary » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:27 AM UTC

wamatt wrote: post #85

ary wrote: post #53

It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do. There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the…

As much as I loathe being the guy defending trolls, the level of judgement expressed in this thread is a bit troubling. Labeling this kid a 'pyschopath' might feel nice, but it's rather inaccurate. [1]. Specifically when he saw the damage he'd caused, a very human emotional response of remorse and regret kicked in. We have no reason to believe it's fake, especially given we weren't the one's there, and the author bel…

First, I'm well aware of the definition of psychopathy. Second, psychopathy is not a binary condition. An individual can be on a spectrum of severity, or (as has been noted by people researching the condition) psychopaths can and do mimic the responses to emotion that they see in others but do not feel themselves. Perhaps he is or perhaps he isn't, but without additional action of the part of the OP and the kid's parents there is no way he will be properly diagnosed until something similar, but more severe, might happen.

So, yes, we are making judgements in this thread, but not everyone here is being "judgmental." Making a considered decision about available evidence is a reasonable act. The repercussions of this young man's actions should not have been watered down because of his age, and especially not in light of the toll it exacted on his victim. Others might be calling for extreme punishment, but I am calling for appropriate response.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#98

Post by ary » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:36 AM UTC

enneff wrote: post #89

ary wrote: post #53

It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do. There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the…

What would you recommend for this kid, apart from counseling?

I'll speak for myself, as if I had a child that acted in this way.

The first, and most important response would be to establish why. With actions like this being carried out in and from my own home I would have to immediately reassess my level of involvement with my child and whether or not I was culpable via omission. Very soon thereafter I would seek out the advice of people directly involved with the study and treatment of psychopathy and sociopathy and have my child assessed. From there it would be up to the outcome of that assessment.

Perhaps that's not the kind of clear cut answer you were (possibly) looking for, but I think it comes down to whether or not it was an innate or developed problem.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#99

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:40 AM UTC

minitrollster wrote: post #91

yelsgib wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, to situate this conversation in a framework where "alternatives" are to be considered is to already assume an authoritarian stance. I believe that the model you are assuming is one in which there is some sort of established "government" which selects among alternative systems sharing the property that they are maintained by varying degrees of implicit/explicit use of force. I would never claim to know…

After reading this, I can only say one thing: you're living in fantasyland. This is the real world, not some libertarian utopia. And regarding your last point, what about pedophiles? Rapists? Should we just surround them with love and forgiveness?

[deleted]

Re: Meeting A Troll

#100

Post by prawn » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 5:46 AM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #52

drhayes9 wrote: post #17

My wife and I just had a baby and it has made me realize that I would burn the world to cinders in defense of my family. I have no idea how this guy reached through the fire and shook this kid's hand. Wow.

It is an amazing experience to learn that there is somebody who is more important to you than you, isn't it? Whatever combination of biology, psychology and sociology that brings that about, it is something to experience!

I've got a nine-week old. Loved your comment and I'm passing it on to my wife. So true.