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Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

phys.org

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Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#91

Post by em-bee »

asdff wrote: post #84
sushp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a good impression of "Montessori" from hearing that Larry/Sergey/Bezos went to one. When I put my kid in it at 3 years old, he hated it. As I looked into it more, it seems to me that it is actually very rigid, with kids being able to play with just a small set of toys that don't really exercise their creativity, and with little opportunity for group play. We switched him to a Reggio Emilia school where the kids…

I attended one for elementary and middleschool. Early on everything we did was in groups. Take the multiplication flash cards and quiz eachother. Mess with the abacus. Look at the geological periods chart, etc. All the stuff seemed pretty fun to me. Yes, we had outdoor recess everyday, alhough we had a good setup with a big playground and some woods on the property. A lot of montessori setups I see now look really sp…

thank you for that detailed insight. i only had the opportunity to observe ad learn about montessori in kindergarten. what you describe is pretty much what i expected from reading about it, but i haven't seen any stories from actual students who experienced it.

it would seem that some groups in your class could have benefited from more teacher attention. or maybe from mixing up the groups.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#92

Post by jaxn »

_yb2s wrote: post #81
ghostpepper wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and sadly this kind of gives the Montessori label pretty limited predictive value. Turns out you just need to find a good school, regardless of label.

It really comes down to the teachers skill and personality- and that often comes down to if the school can afford the best teachers. Often in the USA regular public schools in wealthy communities will have better teachers than you will find at most private Montessori schools.

Part of schools "affording" the best teachers is not money, but the amount of discipline problems they need to deal with. Which correlates to the financial status of the families at that school. For tons of reasons.

Which families tend to win the lottery to go to these schools? The parents that can afford to. Even if the school is free, the transportation is often not. Plus the parents have to have enough free time to be aware of the lottery for their 3 year old.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#93

Post by genghisjahn »

WillAdams wrote: post #32

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system. I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classe…

I can’t find any record of a Mississippi Supreme Court decision regarding a program like you described. I did find evidence that Mississippi actively permits dual enrollment for secondary and post secondary education. Do you have a source for the decision you referenced?

https://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/title-37/chapter-15...

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#94

Post by margalabargala »

zorked wrote: post #52
mlinhares wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did high school at a prestigious technical school at my hometown, hard to get in, very competitive. The education itself wasn't that much better than my previous school but they had the name recognition and as getting in was very hard, likely the best students around town. Almost 100% pass rate to college, mostly the best colleges. Did the education provided there affect this? Likely, but it was much more the self…

In my hometown there is something like that. There are two schools, one of them had a year with particularly good approval rates. Competitive parents started preferring that school, finding ways to send their kids there. That school has been sustaining better approval rates since then. Which should make no sense because the teachers themselves work odd years in one school, even years in the other school.

> Which should make no sense because the teachers themselves work odd years in one school, even years in the other school.

The finding here is, competitive parents have an impact on the college approval rates of their children. Get them to all send their kids to the same school, that school gets better approval rates, regardless of the teachers.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#95

Post by giantg2 »

zorked wrote: post #52
mlinhares wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did high school at a prestigious technical school at my hometown, hard to get in, very competitive. The education itself wasn't that much better than my previous school but they had the name recognition and as getting in was very hard, likely the best students around town. Almost 100% pass rate to college, mostly the best colleges. Did the education provided there affect this? Likely, but it was much more the self…

In my hometown there is something like that. There are two schools, one of them had a year with particularly good approval rates. Competitive parents started preferring that school, finding ways to send their kids there. That school has been sustaining better approval rates since then. Which should make no sense because the teachers themselves work odd years in one school, even years in the other school.

It makes perfect sense if we approach it from the stance that parents and peers matter more than the teachers. Anecdotally, kids who have parents who give a crap and peers who share similar goals (seek good grades, entrance to college, not doing drugs, etc) tend to do better in school.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#96

Post by sgarland »

WillAdams wrote: post #32

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system. I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classe…

There are a few K-12 Montessori schools, but not many. My wife is a primary (3-5 year olds) at the only one in our state. My kids are in 2nd and 4th grade, and we intend to see it through. They love it.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#97

Post by kingkawn »

sushp wrote: post #45
WillAdams wrote: post #32

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system. I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classe…

I had a good impression of "Montessori" from hearing that Larry/Sergey/Bezos went to one. When I put my kid in it at 3 years old, he hated it. As I looked into it more, it seems to me that it is actually very rigid, with kids being able to play with just a small set of toys that don't really exercise their creativity, and with little opportunity for group play. We switched him to a Reggio Emilia school where the kids…

Reggio is way better than the other weirdly controlling, Waldorf-like Montessori

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#98

Post by elzbardico »

Waterluvian wrote: post #82
sushp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a good impression of "Montessori" from hearing that Larry/Sergey/Bezos went to one. When I put my kid in it at 3 years old, he hated it. As I looked into it more, it seems to me that it is actually very rigid, with kids being able to play with just a small set of toys that don't really exercise their creativity, and with little opportunity for group play. We switched him to a Reggio Emilia school where the kids…

> had a good impression of "Montessori" from hearing that Larry/Sergey/Bezos went to one. Oh man… survivorship bias thinking is dangerous.

At last for me, the last thing I wanted to my son would be for him to become Jeff Bezos.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#99

Post by objektif »

Taek wrote: post #88
sushp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a good impression of "Montessori" from hearing that Larry/Sergey/Bezos went to one. When I put my kid in it at 3 years old, he hated it. As I looked into it more, it seems to me that it is actually very rigid, with kids being able to play with just a small set of toys that don't really exercise their creativity, and with little opportunity for group play. We switched him to a Reggio Emilia school where the kids…

Like anything, there are lower and higher quality implementations of Montessori programs. What you are saying here does not reflect the Montessori program I went through myself, and I think I can credit the Montessori program with a great deal of my later stage curiosity and drive to outperform. I would say the same of the public high school that I attended. The attitude of the teachers and the other students was fan…

We visited multiple Montessori schools for both my kids and I can confidently say that I met some of the saddest and coldest teachers I have ever seen in my life. I am not sure that is really best environment for small kids.

I myself went to shitty public schools and became an exceptional student later on. I am doubtful about the impact of early education on future success.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#100

Post by giantg2 »

foxglacier wrote: post #68
Eridrus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but this was an RCT, so enrollment was randomized after people self selected into this experiment.

It also had an obvious and unhelpful result. Of course kids who spend all day learning will know that stuff better than kids who don't. What really matters is long term life outcomes. Rudolf Steiner would say all that early learning is harmful and they should have been playing and imagining spiritual things.

"What really matters is long term life outcomes."

What would those be and how do we measure them?

There are studies that show Montessori students tend to have better executive function, better working memory, and no significant difference in creativity. I'm not aware of any that look at lifetime income or anything like that.

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