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JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

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Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#91

Post by nine_k »

drnick1 wrote: post #79
vamega wrote: post #44

I really hope Fastmail implements the JMAP spec for calendars and contacts soon. They’ve had the mail part of the spec implemented for a while, but it still requires CardDAV/CalDAV for contacts and calendar access.

What good is a protocol like JMAP as long as common clients like Thunderbird, K-9 Mail, the iPhone email client and others don't support it? Without some concerted effort it will never take off. Then there is the question of what problem it solves that isn't already solved by existing solutions.

Next time an iCal event invitation screws up the time zone, return to this question.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#92

Post by solarkraft »

9dev wrote: post #6

While JMAP seems to scratch every itch of a sucker for proper web API design, I’m wondering if the design space for new protocols should really be constrained to layers on top of HTTP. Is there really any new-ish binary protocol these days? Stuff like file sharing or groupware, mail, calendars, and so on—these things could be a lot more efficient and don’t really need the overhead of JSON as the message interchange f…

> I’m wondering if the design space for new protocols should really be constrained to layers on top of HTTP.

Absolutely yes, IMO. This significantly eases web client development.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#93

Post by solarkraft »

Reading weirdly many “but there are no clients” posts. Of course something has to come first. You can’t really develop a client without a server implementation and Stalwart is essentially the first server implementation of JMAP.

With Stalwart in place, there’s finally a reason to develop a client for JMAP.

I hope y’all are aware that Mozilla’s new mail service will use it, so that is likely going to give JMAP a big push!

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#94

Post by kevincox »

evrflx wrote: post #41
woleium wrote: post #24

I wish there was an easy auto-update process for Stalwart. is anyone hosting an apt repo for it? edit: we use it on very resource constrained environments, the container version is too much overhead.

Where is the overhead in a container? It is just a regular process. (Ok plus a container runtime process, but that is negligible)

Does podman have a container runtime process? Or does it just exec the child after setting up the environment?

In that case the overhead is just a small amount of kernel accounting.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#95

Post by 20after4 »

7bit wrote: post #83
WorldMaker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> binary protocol Email was never a binary protocol. Notoriously so, it's why MIME types and MIME encodings get so complicated. Most of the "old internet" protocols (email, FTP, even HTTP itself) were bootstrapped on top of built-mostly-for-plaintext Telnet. HTTP as the new telnet has a bunch of improvements when it comes to binary data, request/response-based data flows, and some other considerations. HTTP/3 is even…

> Most of the "old internet" protocols (email, FTP, even HTTP itself) were bootstrapped on top of built-mostly-for-plaintext Telnet. That's just not true. Telnet and SMTP are built on top of TCP. They live on the same layer. They were originally both protocols that transmitted data with printable ascii, hence why they look similar. There are many other protocols like Telnet and SMTP that worked like that, auch as nnt…

I think that the point is this: You could literally use a telnet client to talk to all of those servers and it was considered a good thing, maybe even an essential feature. So protocol design was somehow influenced by the need to be fully plain text ASCII streams (and maybe that other options weren't adequately explored due to this restriction)

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#97

Post by solarkraft »

Stalwart is, from what I’ve read, an excellent JMAP server.

JMAP is, from what I’ve read, a great protocol for building an E-Mail (and now also others) client on top of.

Since I would like an innovative way to access my E-Mails, but do not want to self-host, I would find it interesting to use Stalwart as the server component of an E-Mail client: Data is somehow synced into Stalwart via the “ugly” protocols and I get a nice API to build an elegant client on top of.

My basic research shows that something like IMAP-IMAP sync seems to be a thing. Has anyone done something like this, perhaps even with Stalwart? (this of course grows in complexity for each new protocol to be proxied).

I believe having this kind of setup easily accessible could jumpstart a new generation of E-Mail clients on top of JMAP because it (relatively elegantly?) circumvents the chicken-egg problem by allowing all existing IMAP mailboxes to be accessed via JMAP.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#98

Post by woodruffw »

whatevaa wrote: post #90
woodruffw wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: what’s the differentiator if major email providers don’t support it? (This should not be interpreted as a defense of IMAP.)

IMAP is a shit protocol in general. Notably, email UIDs are not guaranteed to be static across sessions (aka, next time you connect they may be different), which is just straight up dumb. You IMAP client has to do a lot of workarounds just for this, which leads to gnarly bugs and inefficiences.

I don’t even remotely disagree with this. But that wasn’t the point: the point was that JMAP is only a competitive advantage if (major) email providers actually adopt it. Bad technologies regularly win because of inertia.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#99

Post by tristan957 »

drnick1 wrote: post #79
vamega wrote: post #44

I really hope Fastmail implements the JMAP spec for calendars and contacts soon. They’ve had the mail part of the spec implemented for a while, but it still requires CardDAV/CalDAV for contacts and calendar access.

What good is a protocol like JMAP as long as common clients like Thunderbird, K-9 Mail, the iPhone email client and others don't support it? Without some concerted effort it will never take off. Then there is the question of what problem it solves that isn't already solved by existing solutions.

JMAP works in my email client, aerc.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#100

Post by tristan957 »

solarkraft wrote: post #93

Reading weirdly many “but there are no clients” posts. Of course something has to come first. You can’t really develop a client without a server implementation and Stalwart is essentially the first server implementation of JMAP. With Stalwart in place, there’s finally a reason to develop a client for JMAP. I hope y’all are aware that Mozilla’s new mail service will use it, so that is likely going to give JMAP a big p…

There are clients. I use one called aerc.
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