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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

bbc.com

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#91

Post by _ache_ »

csomar wrote: post #67
rapsey wrote: post #2

So he used money from Libya to get elected and then later he bombed them?

More like bombed Gaddafi and guaranteed his downfall than bombed "Libya". It is probably a bit more complicated than that, though. The U.S./NATO were also involved and there is a lot of money there. He probably thought he could get away with it. But make no mistake this is a political play and everyone involved is as dirty as the Paris Seine.

Hey! The Seine isn't dirty as this guy.

Maybe the Seine was heavily covered as dirty by the media but remember that you shouldn't swim in the San Francisco bay either. Wait for the next JO to hear about water quality problem with the LA beach area under rain.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#92

Post by Beretta_Vexee »

wiether wrote: post #80
oulipo2 wrote: post #52

We, French, are very proud of having put an ex-President in jail, for his crimes of having tried to whitewash a dictator responsible for the death of more French people than the Bataclan terror attacks in exchange for money. This person humiliated our country, and we're glad our justice put him behind bars

I'm a "half empty" kind of person and seeing how much support he's still getting is quite sad to see. Karine Le Marchand expressing her support is one thing, identifiyng herself as being part of the same caste as Sarkozy, but seeing the same support from regular folks, who have most certainly been screwed over by the ex-President...

It's amazing how all these conservatives who want to be tough on crime change their minds when it comes to one of their friends.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#93

Post by timpera »

randomtoast wrote: post #85

By the way, this is not possible in the U.S and in many other countries. When someone is convicted of a crime, they don’t usually start serving a prison sentence until the case is final. If they appeal, the sentence is automatically paused or can be stayed by the court. In practice, this means you don’t go to prison (unless you are already in preventive detention because of flight risk or danger) while your case is s…

It needs to be noted that it's not the norm in France either. The court chose to send him to jail until the appeal because of the "exceptional gravity" of his behavior, which came to a surprise for many. He will most likely ask the courts to review the execution of the sentence until the appeal in the next few days.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#94

Post by ajnin »

catwell wrote: post #40
looobay wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign [0], he's just a criminal ex-president... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_F...

It's way more complicated than this. First, this is mostly about things that happened before his election. The tribunal ruled he did not personally benefit, and he did not directly solicit money to finance his campaign either. However, some of his closest allies (who would become his ministers later) did the latter. The tribunal could not find any direct proof he was involved but ruled there were enough "converging i…

This is disinformation.

The tribunal didn't rule he didn't personally benefit. It ruled that he conspired to corrupt the leaders of Lybia to steal money from the Lybian people and fund his electoral campaign. In my book becoming president of France is certainly a "personal benefit". There are numerous factual evidence, documents from Lybia, fund transfers, secret meetings of his closest friends with Abdullah Senussi, who has been convicted to life in prison in France for orchestrating the bombing of UTA flight 772 which resulted in 170 deaths and is also currently investigated for another plane bombing.

The money he got allowed him to spend about twice the allowed amount on his campaign, giving him an unfair advantage in the election. In other words he dealt with terrorists to potentially steal the presidential election. What Sarkozy did is extremely severe, I'd call that high treason. He got far less that he deserved.

Also it's worth mentioning that it is his third conviction. He already got a 2 years and 1 year sentence which were confirmed in appeal in other cases.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#96

Post by Beretta_Vexee »

jokoon wrote: post #72

Quite a shame it took this long

Our politicians are suffocating and under funding the French justice system, so that it takes so long and the majority of white-collar and non-violent crimes slip under the radar.

This is by design and not an unintended consequence.

Justice in this country is only served thanks to the incredible determination of the members of the judiciary.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#97

Post by JuniperMesos »

ahoka wrote: post #84
dmurray wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of both. He definitely did criminal things, but they look worse because Gaddafi was such a politically unpopular ("terrorist") leader in the west. If he'd got the same funding from the Obama regime, surely he would never have gone to prison.

Wow, calling the Obama administration a regime seems like... a dog whistle?

There are so many different political perspectives that would inspire someone to use the word "regime" to talk about Obama's presidency of the US, that I'm genuinely not sure which one the parent commenter is likely coming from. It's not a dog whistle it's a whistle for every type of animal.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#98

Post by yard2010 »

falcor84 wrote: post #61
boltzmann-brain wrote: post #12

oh I wish the American people were this brave

Reading up about Israeli politics, it seems that this might be a "be careful what you wish for" situation. They had previously put in prison both a prime minister and a president, and the disastrous governance there over the last decade and a half appears to be in large motivated by Netanyahu's almost certain knowledge that he'll go to prison if and when he loses his grip on the reins. The documentary The Bibi Files…

I'm not into politics and I'm far from an expert but this has more to it. Netanyahu doesn't just wait until he loses his grip on the rein, he's making the changes to the system (i.e ruin the whole country for everyone) so he won't count as a criminal when this is all over.

No offense but the french people should thank god their criminal in control didn't go all the way through turning the country into a shit show in the process.

As I said before I believe we live in a global time in which countries must embrace the rule of law systematically in order to survive as democracies. Otherwise you just get a kleptocracy with extra steps, just like in the US, some of Europe and Russia.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#99

Post by 10729287 »

jakub_g wrote: post #48

In some ways, this reminds me of Bernard Tapie, called "a man with 1001 lives". It's a really interesting story from 1980s/90s of a self-made-businessman, turned politician, getting to the very top, doing deals with African leaders, becoming minister, having his football club (Marseille) win the European Champions League; which however was a turning point that started his downfall, as they bought a domestic game just…

Fun fact, what is today perceived as a historical and intense rivalry between the Paris and Marseille football teams was actually completely made up and orchestrated by Bernard Tapie and the TV channel Canal+ (then recent owner of PSG) in the 1990s.
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