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The Pendulum Swings, Again

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#91

Post by loup-vaillant »

w1ntermute wrote: post #80
Nrsolis wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I think that's what I meant to say. I'm still a bit hazy on all the components of the Android platform but AFAIK, the Linux kernel is only the most basic part of the whole thing with the VM and associated parts a larger percentage of the whole package.

The "whole package" is called GNU/Linux, because only the kernel is Linux proper. You'll never hear rms calling for people to call Android GNU/Linux, because it uses different software for that part.

RMS definitely was right to insist on "GNU/Linux" for GNU systems, though: we have proof now that some people who can tell a kernel from an OS can't express themselves clearly when they do need to communicate that distinction.

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#92

Post by boboblong »

rimantas wrote: post #76
zmmmmm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> indicative of a trend that, in hindsight, will have begun just around 2011/12 I think the very beginnings of it were earlier. The moment Apple jumped the shark was when they banned apps not originally written in C/ObjC from the app store. In that moment they made it virtually impossible to be a geek with any credibility and not be at least a little embarrassed to be an Apple fan. They reversed their decision but it…

After reading this comment I am really glad I am not some "geek". I am a programmer, developer, whatever, but I hope I will never turn into geek like one described here.

As a geek, believe me, the feeling is mutual.

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#93

Post by Nrsolis »

stan_rogers wrote: post #88
josephcooney wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "upgradable components"? Apple aren't looking too good in this regard of late.

I believe that was the point -- Apple has "decent" and "Retina-quality display" covered, and that may be somewhat lacking (in the GP's opinion) elsewhere, while the lack of upgradability on the Apple side is an incentive to switch. Get all three requirements covered in a single machine, though...

Right. That was my point. I'm not happy with the path that Apple is taking here. The non-configurability/repairability of the newer laptops along with the ever-increasing closing of the platform gives me pause.

I was looking at the Lenovo Carbon X1 as a possible candidate to replace the Macbook Air I'm currently using but it's not all-the-way-there yet. At least, not for me.

I'm hoping that the other manufacturers catch up soon.

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#94

Post by akldfgj »

protomyth wrote: post #64
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then build a modern day Atari 800 / C64. Isn't that what Raspberry Pi is? A very simple, understandable, eminently hackable computer? That does make me wonder: if I could get 35-40 of them for my kids' high school, would they put them to use? Or would three be as valuable as 40, since only the kids who are like I was would care?

No, Raspberry Pi is a board. You don't hand people a motherboard and expect them to learn to program.

Ctrl-Shift-C in Chrome, or Ctrl-Shift-J in Firefox, will give you a programmable computing environment more powerful and expressive than a 20-year old Atari, Commodore, or Apple.

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#95

Post by watmough »

rolux wrote: post #62
Nrsolis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. This captures my feelings almost to a "T". I have an iPhone4 (replacing a 3GS), an iPad3 (replacing an original iPad), and a Macbook Air (replacing a MacBookPro15) and I'm starting to get very nervous about AAPL. I'm concerned that they are loving towards locking down OS X in a similar fashion to iOS. I wasn't particularly fond of the walled-garden but it was such an improvement that I put up with it. No other p…

I'm having similar concerns, and I think both your post and the parent post are indicative of a trend that, in hindsight, will have begun just around 2011/12. And as someone who remembers (and was part of) the first phase of migration to Apple/OS X, around 2001/02, it seems to me that it had less momentum and was harder to envision than the migration from Apple that may be in its infancy now. (Note: "migration from"…

I think the migration from Apple just hit my wife.

I've been an iPhone user since day 1, made some money on the app store, and my wife followed with the iPhone 3G, then my cast-off iPhone 4 when the 4S came out.

Now though, after I bought her a Nexus 7, she mentioned that she'd happily get an Android phone now. That's quite an indicator, and probably occurring all over the US. Google really hit it out of the park with the N7.

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#96

Post by simplesimpl3 »

bad_user wrote: post #22

The most interesting thing about these recent trends is human nature. I remember back in year 2000/2001 how everybody was talking about freedom, open-source and the open nature of the Internet. I remember how the closed garden that Microsoft tried to create was frowned upon. Small companies that were picking the Internet as a delivery platform and using open-source/multi-platform technologies were on the forefront of…

Great comment. "trying to rationalize..." I think that really says it all. Human nature indeed.

It's certainly not rational.

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#97

Post by derleth »

api wrote: post #46
bad_user wrote: post #22

The most interesting thing about these recent trends is human nature. I remember back in year 2000/2001 how everybody was talking about freedom, open-source and the open nature of the Internet. I remember how the closed garden that Microsoft tried to create was frowned upon. Small companies that were picking the Internet as a delivery platform and using open-source/multi-platform technologies were on the forefront of…

OSX demonstrates the power of design. Apple is a fashion company. Freedom is all good, but not if it looks like shit, and pretty much everything but Apple (at least as of the mid-2000s) looked like shit. I am pleased with the overall design philosophy direction that Unity and Gnome 3 have taken in abandoning the 90s clutterbuck desktop in favor of something cleaner and more fluid, but both are immature. But if they c…

That's not universal, though: Apple is literally unusable for me and others because of design decisions that you can't really fix, simply because Apple.

It's high-handed. It's dictating to the user, and it's a reason (not the only reason) Apple won't ever be the only player in any market it enters.

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#98

Post by cageface »

zmmmmm wrote: post #67
rolux wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having similar concerns, and I think both your post and the parent post are indicative of a trend that, in hindsight, will have begun just around 2011/12. And as someone who remembers (and was part of) the first phase of migration to Apple/OS X, around 2001/02, it seems to me that it had less momentum and was harder to envision than the migration from Apple that may be in its infancy now. (Note: "migration from"…

> indicative of a trend that, in hindsight, will have begun just around 2011/12 I think the very beginnings of it were earlier. The moment Apple jumped the shark was when they banned apps not originally written in C/ObjC from the app store. In that moment they made it virtually impossible to be a geek with any credibility and not be at least a little embarrassed to be an Apple fan. They reversed their decision but it…

That was exactly the turning point for me too. I was uneasy about handing them so much control but was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt given their history and their roots in BSD.

But this decision showed they were willing to make heavy-handed and capricious decisions at users' and developers' expense and revealed the dark side of Apple's policy of total control of their platform.

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#99

Post by cageface »

rimantas wrote: post #76
zmmmmm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> indicative of a trend that, in hindsight, will have begun just around 2011/12 I think the very beginnings of it were earlier. The moment Apple jumped the shark was when they banned apps not originally written in C/ObjC from the app store. In that moment they made it virtually impossible to be a geek with any credibility and not be at least a little embarrassed to be an Apple fan. They reversed their decision but it…

After reading this comment I am really glad I am not some "geek". I am a programmer, developer, whatever, but I hope I will never turn into geek like one described here.

So you prefer to have some corporation dictating what tools you can use, even if other tools are equally or even more productive for your work? Even if this policy has as much to do with their business agenda as it does with any technical concerns?

Re: The Pendulum Swings, Again

#100

Post by jlgreco »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #91
w1ntermute wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "whole package" is called GNU/Linux, because only the kernel is Linux proper. You'll never hear rms calling for people to call Android GNU/Linux, because it uses different software for that part.

RMS definitely was right to insist on "GNU/Linux" for GNU systems, though: we have proof now that some people who can tell a kernel from an OS can't express themselves clearly when they do need to communicate that distinction.

Exactly. For years I did not see the point in "GNU/Linux" as a term. I understood why he wanted it called that, and sympathised with him, but I lacked a reason to actually care.

Now though the distraction is useful. I use GNU/Linux on my servers, desktops, and laptops, and I use Android/Linux on my phone. The terminology now makes conversation easier, instead of more cumbersome.

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