The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025 • Hacker News Board

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#91

Post by mallowfram » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 3:39 PM UTC

lanfeust6 wrote: post #66

mallowdram wrote: post #20

Sustained growth, like "economic science", is an oxymoron. There is no science that correlates the use of arbitrary symbols posed as capital. Risk is risk, a primate bias. Economics is essentially "mathematical politics". We can no more create a science of economics than a science of mythology. https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262049658/blunt-instrument/ Downvoting only proves the point: economics is like any primate bia…

The US has among the richest citizens in the world, with a high quality of life. You could do worse for modeling, like perhaps your socialist darlings. Growth is not necessary but provides benefits. A country that grows improves its quality of life. Extreme poverty levels have been plumetting for decades because of said growth ( mostly represented in China and India). The poorest countries trade the least. Economics…

As a post-symbolic, post-causal thinker (not a "socialist" which is also political nonsense), economics is purely the translation to settlement coercion for the production of Myth of the State/center-worshipping ("richest citizens in the world" in what sense? cash? real estate? these are arbitrary variables).

Until we move to measurement (ie analog) rather than binary statistics (which is still merely a project based in counting, yes, 1,2,3) then we are totally informationally emasculated.

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#92

Post by andrepd » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 3:44 PM UTC

Tycho wrote: post #34

I was thinking about this concept of creative destruction recently. I move to my neighbourhood in 2019. Before I got round to visiting them, a bunch of pubs and eateries closed down for the pandemic, and never re-opened. One pub became new apartments. A cafe became some sort of spa. Take the pub for instance, I could imagine it was a lifestyle business for someone who made enough money from it, but not a whole lot. I…

In the year 2025 the zeitgeist is decidedly against any considerations beside crude profit. Like someone pointed out: a park generates less revenue than a café. And a neighbourhood café probably less than a hyperoptimised gigachain. But is an urban park not an important part of quality of life? And is not a neighbourhood café with its crowd of regulars and familiar faces and accessible prices a better thing that yet another chain store #28174? [1]

No space in 2025 for any such considerations.

[1] Case in point: I just read a news piece announcing that an 85 year old café in downtown Lisbon will be closed down to make way to yet another generic gentrified """brunch place""" for tourists. The regulars, many of them elderly and for whom the friendly place was basically a living room to help stave off lonelyness; many of them working people used to stopping by for fresh bread and a chat on their way home from work, are dismayed of course. But it's more "economically efficient" to cater to tourist jerkoffs and sell them the same overpriced egg on croissant that they can have in any large city in the world...

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#93

Post by thrance » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 3:44 PM UTC

lanfeust6 wrote: post #72

thrance wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with this prize isn't that economics is not a real science. Nobel prizes are primarily vulgarization and communication tools, and as such are inhenrently political. The Sveriges Riksbank is piggy-backing off the popularity of Nobel Prizes to advocate for a certain vision ( their vision) of economic orthodoxy. It is overwhelmingly awarded to white western men, who, more relevantly, all share an anglocentric…

White western men are no more represented in Economics than other hard sciences, and concensus in Economics is no different in East Asia and the rest of the world excepting the authoritarian Socialist experiments.

I don't see what point you're trying to make. Do you mean to claim that the Sveriges Riksbank is unbiased in who it chooses to give their price to? Unless you believe that 90% of economists come from the US (and the remaining 10% from the UK), you should take issue with this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_Memorial_Prize_l...

> concensus in Economics

That's what I was talking about. This "consensus" is completely made-up and propped up by, among others, the Sveriges Riksbank. To the point that there are people like you who feel they should defend them against the evil "authoritarian Socialist", because of course, as we all know, that's all there is besides Neoliberalism. I sincerly hope you consider broadening your horizons, maybe start by Thomas Piketty's work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Piketty

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#94

Post by lanfeust6 » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 3:45 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #88

lanfeust6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White western men are no more represented in Economics than other hard sciences, and concensus in Economics is no different in East Asia and the rest of the world excepting the authoritarian Socialist experiments.

There's no "consensus" in economics, let alone.

That's nonsensical. There is overwhelming consensus over many things, e.g. tariffs.

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#95

Post by thrance » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 3:52 PM UTC

lanfeust6 wrote: post #69

belter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Predictable...but are those aholes wrong...? :-) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44013692 Economics violates Popper demarcation criterion. Economic theories can't be falsified because you can't run controlled experiments on economies, rewind history, or isolate variables. When models fail, economists adjust assumptions ... Unfalsifiable = Unscientific.

Argentina managed to save itself from hyperinflation by drastically cutting spending. By your logic, this could not be in the least bit predictable and inflation as a phenomenon doesn't even matter. Supposing it did was fairly predictable that not setting money on fire would help recovery, what does it matter that there is no controlled scientific experiment involved? Or to put it another way, are there no facts to b…

Argentina didn't manage shit, else they wouldn't have to be bailed out by the Trump admin. This should come as a surprise to no one, "General AnCap" may have artifically and temporarily given the impression of good numbers by destroying his country's public infrastructure, but this is at the direct cost of the future. Now they're starting to pay the price.

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#96

Post by cassianoleal » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 3:53 PM UTC

lanfeust6 wrote: post #37

fnord77 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stagnation is environmentally sustainable. Constant creation-destruction cycles will ultimately deplete the environment

Innovation is such that efficiency increase requires fewer resources and land. Population growth is stagnating and will peak in less than 100 years. Neo-Malthusianism is as bunk as Malthusianism was

> Innovation is such that efficiency increase requires fewer resources and land.

...to produce the same output. Growth requires greater output though.

Just look at the timeline of energy consumption [0]. Either you're wrong and innovation requires more resources, or you're right and there's no direct relation between innovation and overall resource usage.

[0] https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#97

Post by lanfeust6 » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 3:59 PM UTC

mallowfram wrote: post #91

lanfeust6 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has among the richest citizens in the world, with a high quality of life. You could do worse for modeling, like perhaps your socialist darlings. Growth is not necessary but provides benefits. A country that grows improves its quality of life. Extreme poverty levels have been plumetting for decades because of said growth ( mostly represented in China and India). The poorest countries trade the least. Economics…

As a post-symbolic, post-causal thinker (not a "socialist" which is also political nonsense), economics is purely the translation to settlement coercion for the production of Myth of the State/center-worshipping ("richest citizens in the world" in what sense? cash? real estate? these are arbitrary variables). Until we move to measurement (ie analog) rather than binary statistics (which is still merely a project based…

> As a post-symbolic, post-causal thinker (not a "socialist" which is also political nonsense)

That tells me nothing about your perspective. Your ideology is as identifiable as anyone else's and you have to do politics like anyone else.

> economics is purely the translation to settlement coercion for the production of Myth of the State/center-worshipping

It's not up to you. Economics has a definition.

> richest citizens in the world" in what sense? cash? real estate? these are arbitrary variables).

Wealth.

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#98

Post by lanfeust6 » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 4:02 PM UTC

thrance wrote: post #95

lanfeust6 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argentina managed to save itself from hyperinflation by drastically cutting spending. By your logic, this could not be in the least bit predictable and inflation as a phenomenon doesn't even matter. Supposing it did was fairly predictable that not setting money on fire would help recovery, what does it matter that there is no controlled scientific experiment involved? Or to put it another way, are there no facts to b…

Argentina didn't manage shit, else they wouldn't have to be bailed out by the Trump admin. This should come as a surprise to no one, "General AnCap" may have artifically and temporarily given the impression of good numbers by destroying his country's public infrastructure, but this is at the direct cost of the future. Now they're starting to pay the price.

> Argentina didn't manage shit

You're deflecting. Curtailing inflation was an outcome of policy. The U.S. had fuck-all to do with it. Unless you're willing to acknowledge something so basic there's nothing else to say to someone disinterested in good faith discussion

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#99

Post by mallowfram » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

lanfeust6 wrote: post #97

mallowfram wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a post-symbolic, post-causal thinker (not a "socialist" which is also political nonsense), economics is purely the translation to settlement coercion for the production of Myth of the State/center-worshipping ("richest citizens in the world" in what sense? cash? real estate? these are arbitrary variables). Until we move to measurement (ie analog) rather than binary statistics (which is still merely a project based…

> As a post-symbolic, post-causal thinker (not a "socialist" which is also political nonsense) That tells me nothing about your perspective. Your ideology is as identifiable as anyone else's and you have to do politics like anyone else. > economics is purely the translation to settlement coercion for the production of Myth of the State/center-worshipping It's not up to you. Economics has a definition. > richest citiz…

Wealth is arbitrary post settlement. Show me a currency from 700AD still traded on a regulated market. In that sense, wealth is a decadent category the West will be destroyed by, look at the current state of oligarchy, particularly tech. There's little if any ecological parity in these displays of wealth and extraction status.

My ideology is the replacement of symbols with measurement. I have no relationship with politics, which is clearly a dinosaur still walking the Earth. Politics will vanish in the post-symbolic like a disease we cured easily.

No economics is like any word, it's arbitrary, that is HOW it needs a definition that varies from state to state.

"Economic theory has never gotten any better at prediction. Its explanations are always after the fact. The mathematical models economists have devoted themselves to for more than a century can’t be improved to enhance their empirical relevance." Alex Rosenberg

The deadness of the West is so unusual, as if the whole enterprise was for self-extinction of a way of poetically enhancing words, narratives and myths/religion. The West was simply a temporary state.

The west assumed individual happiness (politics, entertainment, biographical myth making, celebrity) was the path to collective happiness. But of course, in our agentic languages, that was simply the hydra of our undoing. The west was like a temporary infection that colonized and dominated more collective people, but now we will be subsumed if we don’t destroy the world in a suicidal urge to dominate

Re: The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2025

#100

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 4:14 PM UTC

lanfeust6 wrote: post #68

tovej wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economics _is_ a social science, and a politicized one at that. Sociology is more rigid than economics when it comes to validation of theories and choice of methods (statistics vs. mathematical models filled with assumptions). Economics, especially neoclassical economics, has a serious problem in prediction quality, a physics theory would have been abandoned by now if it was so bad at predicting real-life phenomena a…

This is completely false. The opposite is true. Economics had drastically improved reproduction over decades.

[deleted]