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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#91

Post by dylan604 »

dgfitz wrote: post #75
dylan604 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with what? What is it that you think is a gotcha here?

Most countries don’t do it, including the US. “Ready and willing” is quite the turn of phrase.

I've seen US numbers along 70-80% is imported. That leaves 20-30% domestic. Some of the REEs are 100% imported, so that's a different issue. But you seem to be implying that the US is 100% importing all REEs with no domestic production at all. That's not true. Yes, some production is slowed due to environmental issues. Some of it is a different nature along the lines of "why mine yours when you can buy someone else's". You keep yours in the ground until you have to get it. You have some small production just to keep the know-how, but you keep the stove down to a simmer from a boil.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#92

Post by khuey »

q3k wrote: post #23
nonethewiser wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what just happened logistically? I assume this is an entirely independent Chinese company without some Dutch sponsor or something. That conforms to local regulations. But now The Dutch government says "we have this new power over you" and that is that. With the consequence presumably being export control on dutch tech, banning from their market, etc? Or were there any more hooks planted that make it easier to forc…

> I assume this is an entirely independent Chinese company. It's worth noting that Nexperia is a spin-off of NXP (Dutch company) which itself is a spin-off of Philips' (Dutch company) semiconductor division. It's also worth noting that Nexperia's Chinese owners (Wingtech) are at least partially state controlled.

Nexperia was also spun off to placate Chinese regulators back when Qualcomm wanted to acquire NXP, and then after the spin off the Chinese regulators still refused to approve the acquisition.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#93

Post by bgnn »

constantcrying wrote: post #39

Great. Absolutely outstanding from the Dutch government, to not let China dominate Europe however it wants. Securing a Chip industry independent from China, Taiwan and the US has to be the top long term security interest. I only hope that the EU can use it's power to make things like this more feasible and to keep Europe independent from US/Chinese interests.

The same government forced NXP to sell its RF power division to Chinese JAC in 2015 due to NXP and Freescale merger. Isn't that great?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#94

Post by masfuerte »

piskov wrote: post #9

Also real kicker from 2022: The UK used its National Security & Investment Act (2021) to order divestment of Nexperia’s Newport Wafer Fab in Nov 2022. The UK ordered them to sell 86% of the stake due to National Security concerns https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/acquisition-of-ne...

There was also some drama around British Steel back in April with the government seizing control from China:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg17g39x41o

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#95

Post by corimaith »

mk89 wrote: post #86
maxdo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU and west finally TRYING to protect their market the way China is doing it all the time. They tax, ban, espionage everything beneficial to their society. China would do it without a blink.

They would, they do and they did it. But we called them communists for doing so. ;)

Economic Nationalism is not Communism by any sense. Nor is responding to mercantilism.

But the CCP explicitly considers themselves Marxism-Leninism with and their internal beliefs and government structure is structurally follows that.

We consider them Communists and they consider themselves Communist. They do not consider us Communist and we don't either.

You're trying to create a false conflation here and stir division. I'm interested in whose interests comments like yours really reflect. It's certainly not the truth.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#96

Post by maxdo »

mk89 wrote: post #86
maxdo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU and west finally TRYING to protect their market the way China is doing it all the time. They tax, ban, espionage everything beneficial to their society. China would do it without a blink.

They would, they do and they did it. But we called them communists for doing so. ;)

communism is actually exactly the opposite of that. this is rutheless capitalism 101 from china vs religious left/right fights of the west boosted by not in my backyard individualism.

West lived for too long for too good, to start believe that they can do whatever, and live good.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#97

Post by trhway »

tmnvix wrote: post #17
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

> For context, the law that allows this all to happen was passed in 1952 and has never before been used. Interesting parallel here with China recently invoking - for the first time - their own legislation from the 50's to ban rare earth exports for military uses.

I always wondered how the large unified world of Roman Empire with running water and sewer fell apart (and backwards) into multitude of small feudal pieces with no technology to speak of for the 1000 years after Roman Empire. I think our modern civilization is probably at the beginning of similar process.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#98

Post by rbanffy »

mk89 wrote: post #86
maxdo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU and west finally TRYING to protect their market the way China is doing it all the time. They tax, ban, espionage everything beneficial to their society. China would do it without a blink.

They would, they do and they did it. But we called them communists for doing so. ;)

Comrade Karremans it is then…

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#99

Post by mk89 »

maxdo wrote: post #90
mk89 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inferiority complex about China. That's not some s** that someone made up. They/We created an unstoppable beast. They thought that China would be like India or Vietnam or so. Nope. You name it, they build it. We can only "regulate" it - see what Europe has come up with to justify it - with the CO2 nonsense, "human rights" and all that. More regulations are the only way to prevent to get your market over flooded by…

That’s a myth. Yes, we allow them to move faster—much faster—but it’s simply because their government is more efficient. Western society, in contrast, runs on a kind of religion. People follow a few belief systems: socialism, right-wing conservatism, and perhaps liberalism as a softer sub-flavor. Here’s the fun part: China learned the hard way that no single dogma—whether communism or anything else—is worth worshipin…

It's not a myth - China wouldn't be in this situation without Nike/etc. going there in the 80's to "reduce" costs (to actually increase their profits). That triggered the whole chain. They thought they could just jump ship when the prices would increase, but what they didn't expect was that they had a guy that instead of getting just fatter and fatter (like many leaders in the world who finally become corrupt etc) actually had a vision for his country, and it's working out. It's the best implementation of the boiling frog metaphor.

About the rest of the post - I would say it's a bit more complicated than just black or white.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#100

Post by corimaith »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #59
echelon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately we seem to be living in interesting times. China played a remarkably smart game. We let it happen. People have been telling us for twenty years that this would happen and nobody listened until it was almost too late.

Either way, it cannot be stopped, China will develop independent technology sector because they can and they have no other choice. They don't trust the West and cases like this make such attitude understandable. As soon as China tries to compete with the rich monopolies, the "free market" goes out of the window and becomes "free to do as we tell you".

>As soon as China tries to compete with the rich monopolies, the "free market" goes out of the window and becomes "free to do as we tell you".

When China cannot compete with incumbents those protections also go up and when they can now people like you appeal to free trade (while ignoring existing protections). You are being overly charitable to one side here. Which is it? Free trade or Protectionism?

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