Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report • Hacker News Board

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#91

Post by pards » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:28 AM UTC

rcxdude wrote: post #84

DrScientist wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To balance that with a positive comment - one of the reasons for going with a consultant/outsourcing is if you have a big one/off type project that you can't resource internally with perms. So the choice is trying to hire a bunch of individual contractors and forge them into a team, or hire a pre-built team for a period of time [1] [1] Sometimes it's sold as a re-built team - but in reality it might be hired in exact…

When I did engineering consultancy, the team was usually thrown together from whoever was available. Usually they knew each other at least a little but it wasn't exactly the same team on each project. But yeah, the team involved in the sale and the team involved in the execution often had very little overlap (though, sometimes it was the B-team selling something unachievable to the customer and then handing it over t…

> clients would generally take some time to actually commit and it's not feasible to keep a team on standby for every sales lead

This is an important reality in consulting. The consultancy cannot keep their best people sitting idle while the clients spend months completing the paperwork.

And it's not just a billability issue. The A team people don't like being underutilized and will find seek employment if they're kept idle too long.

That said, savvy clients will include "named key resources" in the contract to ensure continuity between the sales team and the project team.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#92

Post by icetank » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:32 AM UTC

Intermernet wrote: post #61

protocolture wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised how many companies dont have the expertise in house. And of that set, you would be surprised how many make financial and technical decisions based on no expertise and get themselves into all sorts of trouble. You may also be surprised how many companies have 1 guy in house who pretends to be an expert and does his damned best to prevent people getting hired who might out them. Good consultants…

The thing is, the original problem is one that "the free market" would say should fail. That company, without the expertise required to do the job, should fail. Having consultants do anything in this situation is antithetical to the ideal of a company. The company should fail, OR, the consultants should advise that the company should either fail or gain the expertise to no longer require consultants. Obviously this i…

There is a risk in hiring expertise. What if the idea turns out to not work? What if the company decides to not pursue the idea any further? Now you already hired and trained a bunch of people that are now useless.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#93

Post by jjkaczor » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:33 AM UTC

protocolture wrote: post #57

oytis wrote: post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

You would be surprised how many companies dont have the expertise in house. And of that set, you would be surprised how many make financial and technical decisions based on no expertise and get themselves into all sorts of trouble. You may also be surprised how many companies have 1 guy in house who pretends to be an expert and does his damned best to prevent people getting hired who might out them. Good consultants…

... Well, the "gang of 4" (of which Deloitte is one) - from my experience - doesn't have the good expertise in-house either - when needed, they subcontract or outsource to the specialists... (And I am speaking as someone who has worked alongside them, and also subcontracted with them - I generally warn my clients about the A/B/Z-team game and that they would be better off by contracting with smaller agencies or individuals who actually would "embed" better in their project/team/initiatives)

And apparently so much so that they feel they can even use AI-created reports/materials...

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#94

Post by sauercrowd » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:35 AM UTC

oytis wrote: post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

I think one part that gets easily overlooked is that they not in-house, and that's a feature.

That means even when an in-house team has the same expertise, they have to adhere by in-house processes and hierarchy.

If a CEO signs off a consultant contract, they dont play in the same arena, and can often side-step the hurdles an internal team would face, without anyone internally getting too upset (compared to an internal team side-stepping processes).

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#95

Post by rcxdude » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:35 AM UTC

Intermernet wrote: post #61

protocolture wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised how many companies dont have the expertise in house. And of that set, you would be surprised how many make financial and technical decisions based on no expertise and get themselves into all sorts of trouble. You may also be surprised how many companies have 1 guy in house who pretends to be an expert and does his damned best to prevent people getting hired who might out them. Good consultants…

The thing is, the original problem is one that "the free market" would say should fail. That company, without the expertise required to do the job, should fail. Having consultants do anything in this situation is antithetical to the ideal of a company. The company should fail, OR, the consultants should advise that the company should either fail or gain the expertise to no longer require consultants. Obviously this i…

If the company can usefully gain access to that expertise by paying a consultant, then why should that be a problem as far as the market is concerned? There's nothing in the idea of efficient markets that says anything about how the company or economic activity should be structured (in fact, there's an argument that having such activity be subject to market pressure could improve market efficiency).

The main issue, of course, is that a truly efficient market is a theoretical construct that can only be approximated. And in practice the approximation is often quite poor: successful companies are usually only doing one or two things right to make their success, then doing most other things in a mediocre fashion, and usually one or two things just short of catastrophically badly.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#96

Post by protocolture » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:42 AM UTC

Intermernet wrote: post #61

protocolture wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised how many companies dont have the expertise in house. And of that set, you would be surprised how many make financial and technical decisions based on no expertise and get themselves into all sorts of trouble. You may also be surprised how many companies have 1 guy in house who pretends to be an expert and does his damned best to prevent people getting hired who might out them. Good consultants…

The thing is, the original problem is one that "the free market" would say should fail. That company, without the expertise required to do the job, should fail. Having consultants do anything in this situation is antithetical to the ideal of a company. The company should fail, OR, the consultants should advise that the company should either fail or gain the expertise to no longer require consultants. Obviously this i…

>The thing is, the original problem is one that "the free market" would say should fail. That company, without the expertise required to do the job, should fail.

The free market doesnt say anything, the invisible hand is also silent. Have seen:

1. Additional round of investor funding to rescue the business based on doing it right this time.

2. Dip into family money to reorganise and rescue business

3. Uses us to correct their practices and then runs it themselves

4. Farm mortgage.

I dont see how its antithetical, its a service. Businesses use other businesses services all the time.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#97

Post by thelastgallon » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:43 AM UTC

rhetocj23 wrote: post #85

decimalenough wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience with using a $WITCH for a large support engagement, the A team woos you, the B team is what you get initially, and as soon as they think you've got your eye off the ball, they swap in the Z team. This was for a contract where we made it very clear that quality/skill was paramount and we would happily pay above market rates forever if they could maintain it. Of course they got greedy and lost the de…

That’s exactly how it works.

I've learnt this truth recently with most professions. Consultations with attorney based on rave reviews, after signing up, get assigned a random attorney from the firm. One attorney instantly sold my case to another attorney! Just started talking to chiropractor (i know! same as astrology), same trick!

I haven't seen this yet in doctors offices. I see a doctor at an office specialized in an area (say gastrointestinal), they wouldn't switch and need the consent of the doctor to switch to another doctor in the same practice.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#98

Post by xinu2020 » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:45 AM UTC

AznHisoka wrote: post #83

rwaksmunski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when you have a bad idea you want to implement but don't want to take responsibility for it, you keep on hiring consultants until you hear what you want to hear. Quality of the consulting is irrelevant and interns or AI will do just fine. When the project inevitably implodes, you blame the consultant. Your own employees will give you advice on what's best for the company, not necessary what's best for you so yo…

>> you keep on hiring consultants until you hear what you want to hear. Sounds like a job that AI easily replaces

Except for the accountability part. That's the main feature of consulting.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#99

Post by protocolture » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:45 AM UTC

jjkaczor wrote: post #93

protocolture wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised how many companies dont have the expertise in house. And of that set, you would be surprised how many make financial and technical decisions based on no expertise and get themselves into all sorts of trouble. You may also be surprised how many companies have 1 guy in house who pretends to be an expert and does his damned best to prevent people getting hired who might out them. Good consultants…

... Well, the "gang of 4" (of which Deloitte is one) - from my experience - doesn't have the good expertise in-house either - when needed, they subcontract or outsource to the specialists... (And I am speaking as someone who has worked alongside them, and also subcontracted with them - I generally warn my clients about the A/B/Z-team game and that they would be better off by contracting with smaller agencies or indiv…

I once saw one of Deloittes competitors build up a really basic Dynamics CRM, and then sent in some of their junior analysts to convince the customer, that they should just change their business practices to conform to the CRM as presented. They charged ~15 million for the service.

Deloitte really falls into the "We wined and dined and whored the decision maker" tranche.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#100

Post by jeena » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 11:45 AM UTC

DrScientist wrote: post #59

While we are on the topic of listing problems with consultants/outsourcing - another potential problem is the A team/ B team switch. During initial engagement you are often talking to somebody who appears to actually know their stuff - you hire them and find that this knowledgable person has moved on to the next big sales, and you've got the B or C team.

Normally you just have a few team A people and they are needed for the next client.