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Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

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Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that this metric correlates well with the browser being usable on real websites Also, I don't think that the Ladybird folks are just doing the bare minimum to only increase their score on WPT. They're implementing each feature in such a way that basic browsing seems to work better and that their WPT score improves.

The wpt score is not that well balanced. Look at https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladyb... : out of about 2 million tests, more than half are for the "encoding" category. Good encoding support is needed for sure, but likely not at that level of prevalence.

It seems my communication did not adequately convey the fact that I have no problem with the Ladybird team doing this. It makes perfect sense and is the right thing to do.

However, a jump like that means precisely and exactly what I said it means; very suddenly, that metric became much more important to the team. It is written straight into the graph.

A large number of encoding-related tests that were probably relatively easy to fix in bulk is certainly a plausible explanation.

A lot of people are imputing to me assumptions that they are bringing to my post, such as assuming that such improvements must be fake or bad or somehow otherwise cheating. Nope. Moreover, if you are thinking that, don't take it up with me, go take it up with the graph directly. It's not my graph. I'm just amused at the spectacular demonstration of Goodhart's Law.

Are the commentators who think I'm being critical of the Ladybird project going to defend their implicit proposition that the browser got twice as good in whatever period that graph is in, a week or a month or whatever? Of course that's not the case.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#94
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRC I think the roadblock isn't that they need to be approved, but that they can only distribute in the EU.

Is distribution the only problem? If Mozilla or Google were to make their code freely available on some git forge like GitHub and I cloned the repo and built it myself, would I be able to run it for seven days or something in the US?

Unless it can be distributed it's not worth Mozilla or Google's time to bother developing support.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#95

[flagged]

It's still early in development. You are free to build it and run it, but there have been no actual releases to end users. It's very much alpha quality, if even that. It's still slow and full of bugs. However, the code quality is generally very good and there's great potential for this browser to eventually go somewhere.

I don't think Andreas is suggesting that it will be offered on iOS any time soon so much as he is pointing out that they achieved this arbitrary milestone.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#96

[flagged]

If you have a spec and a test suite, shouldn't you really be passing all the tests before shipping this stuff to a user? Have you seen the state of the tech industry? "Ship it, then fix it" is considered normal now, for some reason.

If you take a browser for example, you shouldn't be using any current browser. This is the best example of why this isn't always the way to go

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#97

[flagged]

One would think, but ironically Apple's own browser fails the most out of the big three. I've also seen examples of web-developers who already have to do special cases for Chrome, Firefox, and Safari due to their own unique quirks and differences. Web development is hell. https://wpt.fyi/results/

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#98

[flagged]

It doesn’t have anything other than a pre-alpha release and it’s got a clear warning that it’s only for use by developers. That will keep adoption far away from people special casing the browser. Further, it’s open source so incomplete public development is the only way to go for this type of project.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#99

I wish them well, but browsers are very much pay-to-play. Google had to pay their way to their current dominant position.

Pay? You mean putting the "you are using X, why not try chrome" adtext everywhere for every search result?

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work for the likes of Google and Mozilla? Do they use their own engines for iOS versions in the EU and wrap WebKit for other areas?

AFAICT, Chrome and Firefox on iOS are still just WebKit wrappers. I’d love for that to change though, WebKit in iOS sucks in quite a few ways.

such as? I consider myself a power user and I've never run into anything I couldn't handle or get around. Genuinely curious.
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